logoalt Hacker News

Good Tools Are Invisible

245 pointsby theanonymousonetoday at 10:32 AM128 commentsview on HN

Comments

james_markstoday at 1:29 PM

Solved problems are invisible.

netbioserrortoday at 1:54 PM

I know the link is by the creator of Odin, but I can speak personally for my passion for seamless tools. I have ever had as seamless, high-flow of a development environment as I do now using Nim with Sublime on Mint at work. Every one of these tools is intended to slide out of the way of your thoughts, and they do so deftly. I'm never fighting the tools; instead, the tools are facilitating me transforming my thoughts into compiled programs. All of my time and energy is spent formulating a sound model rather than fiddling with configs or fighting obtuse features.

dude250711today at 12:40 PM

An invisible hammer would be more prone to land on your toe.

curtisblainetoday at 12:37 PM

What is a good tool that's invisible? I'm genuinely curious. All tools I've used are either simple and heavily limited (so, not "invisible" because hard things are hard) or powerful but heavily specialized (so, not "invisible" because the learning curve is very evident). I feel the trade off is inescapable.

show 4 replies
psychoslavetoday at 2:07 PM

The article topic is interesting, but the example it picks to illustrate deserve the purpose a bit. There isn’t any text editor that is really invisible. Dæmons/services are invisible. Copy-paste single clipboard is invisible. Switching displayed context is invisible.

Probably becoming skilled at using Sublime afterward become nice in some cases, but personally I never achieved the cumbersome of integrating multiple text pointers in my habits. In the rare occasion it feels like it might be useful, I know I will need to look at what are the keyboard dance moves again, and by the time I go search for it, my brain already generated several ready to go alternative paths to achieve the change. And I don’t even know if it can do things out of the box like `:grep pattern-to-select-buffer | g!:pattern-line-to-exclude:s:initial-string:target-string:g | update`. That’s already awesomely powerful for this level of granularity.

But that’s a rare case where to make the tool shine: most editor deal with full literal substitution just as well (if not better in term of UI), more complex refactors will be better dealt with with whatever decent modern IDE, and whatever more cases that want would want to cover using some more advanced macro is probably going to be just as easy to deal with a bespoke script.

Also Sublime is not everywhere. Nor is Vim or Emacs to be clear (as soon as you are outside of a Unix lineaged box). Though probably if one need to ssh in some remote box `vi` will most likely be an option, even busybox integrate one. But we are no longer talking about whole contemporary project edition here of course.

Still the underlying point is nice to highlight, melting it with editor war didn’t make it a favor.

senfiajtoday at 1:11 PM

Yeah, I'm so sick of hearing "it's way faster to install app on linux by using terminal than using that bloated gui softare center".

cryo32today at 1:17 PM

This is why LLMs are shit. They get between you and everything and turn it into a negotiation.

f13f1f1f1today at 5:47 PM

I only recently switched to emacs, and my motivation was not that I like tinkering but that having a flexible gui thing I can create custom views for w/ LLMs have basically 0 cost of producing new tools/uis. It's much the same with the linux example, I have been a lifelong windows user but switched around a year ago. I've tried multiple times in the past but hated tinkering and the issues that came up so never stuck with it. Now with LLMs I'm using a tiling wm and can just have a suite of hotkeys that automate everything I need to do, and if I ever want a new thing I can create the new view in a minute and never think about it again. The niceness in openness in tools is being about to integrate with everything else I use effortlessly. I wouldn't say invisibility the goal, but even further the idea of an isolated tool is an abstraction of the general human-computer interface. Your window manager is just as much a part of your ide or text editor as anything else, it's just the mediating layers between you and the program. From a phenomenological perspective the distinction between the different tools or piece of software is essentially arbitrary. Having more open tools that allow you to integrate with your WM and other things allows you to create that effortless, thoughtless experience. I would say a good tool is frictionless, not invisible. What constitutes frictionless for different people will obviously vary based on say how many different computers do you need to work on, what is the breadth of different kind of software and environments you need to work on? How do you control going between those? A frictionless code editor for me is not a code editor that is simple like sublime which in order to integrate with what I do I assume I could figure out some way to do it with a ton of custom scripting, but what is frictionless for me is what is open enough to allow me to go between a variety of different contexts without thinking about it, and being able to have whatever I want at hand without thinking about it. In the past I hate tinkering so much I would have never wanted to deal with this, and on windows particular it's practically not possible.

Just as an example of a frictionless tool, along with programming I also make music (including for some games I work on). When I was on windows to set up practicing playing music I had a preset in my daw I could open quickly, it would need to load then I could begin playing. On linux I just have something built into my taskbar with a performant amp sim and other audio thing always running so at any particular moment I can simply click something in my taskbar and immediately start using my guitar, mic, or analog synth I have set up on my computer. There's another menu to manage the mixing between channels, and things to run midi backing tracks I can practice to play along with. I could do this all on windows but doing each specific thing would require running something, making sure all my devices are still set up properly, using some other program whose UI I don't control to do something for me and just doing a bunch of different steps that impedes my ability to do this. Now I can just the moment I want to click something and it is immediately working with 0 frustration, it's a frictionless tool. I'm not just programming I'm also making music, games, assets for those games, and being able to leverage my WM/text editor to keep track of those things so I can cognitively offload them, and switch between them painlessly is to me the benefit of tooling. If I'm doing stuff with a team I can still leverage most of it but obviously the rest of the team isn't able to see the stuff I use to interact with it. The cost of creating small bespoke script/tooling/uis is essentially 0 now, and using AI to create bespoke tooling to me is a much safer approach than using AI to create code as it's just not really an issue if there's a bug in some of my personal scripts. I use odin for the game I am working on and I love it for it's simplicity and clarity, rather than using functions or programming language abstractions like classes to hide and organize functionality I just have some custom tooling for organize a mostly flat giant main game function. To me that's by far the least friction in understanding it and working on it. My main issue is across the projects I am working on, programming or otherwise, keeping things straight and coherent and being able to access and work with the associated files without thinking. Cognitively offloading to the greatest extent possible, so that what I do actually want to do is always at hand. I would say it's the opposite of invisibility though. (The psychoanalysis of what draws people to different editors is fairly boring and low effort, I absolutely hate tinkering. I am writing a game in Odin rather than using Godot because having to learn some poorly designed UI and how to futz around with it instead of just being able to do what I want is impossibly frustrating to me, it's a friction that locks me into future friction while the friction of learning emacs removed friction to other things)

psychoslavetoday at 1:15 PM

More often than not, good people too. And there are a lot of them. But a single unrepresentative person yelling in the room is all it takes to break stillness of quiet exchanges.

jdw64today at 1:00 PM

This is truly a high-quality post. I completely agree with it.

Workflow is tied to one's identity.

Regarding the discussion about Linux desktops in this post, I think the reason Linux lacks popularity as an desk operating system is that programmers want their computers to be not a 'product' but their own personal tool. So rather than preferring a unified system, they tend to want more freedom to modify the OS themselves.

In other words, this is about system customizability, and about 14 years ago, Linus Torvalds made a similar point [1].

Personally, I think the TUI vs GUI debate simply depends on the domain you belong to. Those focused on OS or open source work face pressure to become familiar with TUI, while programmers like me who deliver software to factories face pressure toward GUI. The people I deliver to almost always ask for the same thing: 'Make it understandable without reading the manual.'

On the other hand, most of the TUI and low-level work I've encountered has been dominated by the 'Read The Fucking Manual' culture.

I think people see the pros and cons of their environment depending on where they place their identity. I'm a programmer, but honestly, I don't really enjoy looking at a terminal. I look at the logical structure of my code and the logs when it runs, but I'm not really comfortable with the terminal. But the typical end users I deliver to are even less comfortable with terminals than I am. So I don't particularly like terminal culture or memorizing long command strings. They're just more used to clicking buttons. The problem is that the products we develop don't just stay with developers—they also need to be accessible to ordinary consumers. Of course, those who build tools for developers might not think that way, but I believe that even ordinary consumers should be able to easily operate the software

Others, of course, think differently. In the end, as the author of this post said, it's a matter of identity.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUk1yNVeEI

aledevvtoday at 12:30 PM

[flagged]

halfaxtoday at 3:54 PM

[dead]

sachinaagtoday at 1:30 PM

[dead]