alt Hacker News“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
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Considering that LLM are created using stolen content or against licensing, it’s only fair to distill and open source them.
Good pretext for bannign chinese APIs in the USA and their vassal states.
If distillation is so good, why aren't US companies distilling each other?
We already know K3 is really good; you don't need to glaze it even more by telling us it's like Fable.
Okay? We have information that Anthropic sucked up all of the internet for the development of Fable.
Human only have this much knowledge. They will become similar anyway.
The level of discourse here anytime distillment is mentioned is so mundane. Do we need 40 people saying the same thing about how they don't feel bad and it serves them right and all that surface level stuff on every single one of these? This is the level of insight one receives anytime you mention chocolate and dogs "Oh it's poisonous for dogs!". Yes, we've all heard that 100 times. Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.
A more interesting part of this discussion is that consistently these Chinese models are held up as a great achievement, and that they're "catching up" when in reality they're just using the work of Anthropic and OpenAI to try and keep up with them. This isn't even to say it's not a valid tactic, but it definitely colors these announcements and proclamations about foreign companies catching up to American ones.
If I get a 1600 on the SAT and you copied my answers and got a 1540, your achievement isn't that significant.
The Irony. These models have been created distilling Internet without ever asking for permission or paying anyone. Internet was the first model.
Is this person trustworthy? I struggle to believe that in the relatively short time Fable was available it has already been distilled so effectively. If this really is actually true, very impressive work.
how is it possible to distill fable only a month after its release? maybe they are confusing opus with fable.
Who cares. It's all theft
i have information Anthropic distilled thousands of books, articles, etc ... with their author consent.
For code can't they distill from public GitHub commits? If they could figure out who used Mythos/Fable assitance in the commits.
A company that distills LLMs should be called "Moonshine" not "Moonshot"
Ba-dum-tss
Assuming they did then they surely paid for them, which makes it "not stealing". Am I also "stealing proprietary U.S. technology" by harvesting my Claude chats from my `.claude` directory and training a bunch of models on them?
That said, I doubt the "they distilled Fable" is the reason why K3 is as good as it is, considering the timelines involved, and that Anthropic hides thinking traces, and their overly aggressive "safety" filters.
This constant FUD spread by Anthropic is so tiring.
If it's true that in under 15 days of access significant improvements were realized in K3, then the moat of closed-weight models is far smaller than previously thought.
Doesn't bode well for the valuations of these labs.
if there are no consequences then who cares? You're not going to take Chinese companies to court and stealing IP is nothing new either. It's going to take some sort of policy change at the federal government level to do anything but they haven't done much up to this point. Maybe AI is important enough to actually get some kind of policy change, sucks for everyone else who have had their IP stolen with no consequences whatsoever.
K3 frequently refers to itself as Claude in reasoning when instructed to play a role.
if its that simple, why doesn’t Anthropic just distill its own models and release Fable 5.1, 5.2, ...?
Hmm. I wonder when this was detected. And was the CoT trace cut from Fable from the start on June 9th or just after the export ban and relaunch? Is this what the export ban was actually about? I honestly don’t know, just wondering aloud.
so they distilled one of the best models in the world AND released it for free to everyone. Where can I send them flowers as a thank you?
Hah tales as old as time. what’s next? Distillation of Disney theme park?
I wonder how they detect this kind of thing. Seems like this is going to be a perpetual issue until it stops being worth doing.
Side note, didn't they stop releasing real thinking tokens for Fable? Or is it still part of some subs or API usage?
So what? Am I supposed to be upset by this? Distill away. Actually, can I help out somehow? As long as they keep publishing open weights, I'll give them my full support.
Seems like an advert for K3 to me.
Fable level performance, for much lower price.
But really, this is the USA getting ready to bring AI companies completely under the control of the Trump administration for ‘national security’
Information wants to be free.
I think the major take away is, Chinese labs are very good at stealing others AI work and offering it did a fraction of the cost. This will be the reason the AI stock market bubble bursts. Unless they add in protection similar to patents, which stops these copied models being used by business.
Do you by chance also have information about Anthropic's training data sources?
I don't know what purpose these "they copied us" crying is ever going to achieve. Europeans stole Chinese silk worms. US stole European books, looms and rocket scientists. Who cares? Be grateful you've got people inventing stuff worth copying.
It's both acceptable and inevitable. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This is what they deserve for the awful way they treat creators and creative people's intellectual property and livelihood.
So it is as "dangerous" as Fable?
I think they deserve, by Justice, to have their models pillaged and raped, just like they did to the internet. They didn't ask for permission when they took the entire of the internet, after all, and given their behaviour is nefarious, it's of Justice that they receive nefarious treatment by others, including chinese AI labs.
The Chinese are not gonna deterred, but the posturing by the Americans is so blatantly hypocritical that everybody is cheering for their demise. See, for example, one of Francis Fukuyama's latests videos on youtube.
“If you can’t compete with them, get them banned”
- US AI companies
Weird 'discussion'. Almost entirely single messages with no threads, all with the same anti-Anthropic/AI position.
Good for Moonshot.
Cry about it IMO. Anthropic reaps what they sow.
IP protections for me, not for thee.
"Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."
who cares. all these frontier models are trained on theft.
didn't Anthropic distil a few tens of millions of books?
Anthropic should think hard about all their fear mongering. It will only end up backfiring on them and everyone else involved.
They definitely used closed private saas products to train their own models, to prove that just drop random small screenshots of any popular product behind a login screen and see how well it's able to identify all of them. ex: https://x.com/michalwols/status/2079968211865330165
or other similar "AI" startups https://x.com/envconfig/status/2079613455296827402
Who cares. Anthropic distilled the entire internet, and then a good bit more beyond that.
If distilling is fair then so is banning it. It's funny how people cry about Anthropic using books and materials to train itself but then when Anthropic does something about it they think its unfair. Pick a lane.
Good. Keep it up
“Hey stop stealing my data. I stole it fair and square.”
How much credible, provable evidence? None really.