alt Hacker NewsOur position on open-weights models
Comments
"Bottled-water vendor position on tap water drinking".
"Our position is that we want moats, just not that moat."
that is so long
This person and company are disgusting. Engineers should grow a backbone and stop supporting anything related to Anthropic
Is Dario Amodei another version of Trump? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
The ban on distillation seems hypocritical.
"F#$% you, I got mine!"
Good luck getting even half of the public to agree on what government is authoritarian
FUD used to pump value
On Dario's concerns:
It is very relevant whether frontier capabilities and research continue to be diffused in the open, because leveling the intelligence playing field empowers ordinary people more than it empowers governments that already have access to the frontier. Models that are trained specifically for military use by governments should not be open-sourced to prevent an arms race, but general intelligence is dual-use and should be given to everyone without guardrails. A pretrained model without deliberate alignment is by default aligned to the average person in the developed world, since that's what's inside the pretraining corpus - stuff on the Internet made by humans. It is a distillation of humanity. Further efforts to align the model to your organization's goals or your personal aesthetic judgements is equivalent to deliberately drifting away from humanity's average objective function. If Anthropic wants to live up to its name, then all you have to do is to not attempt to align Claude at all, and do all of your research in the open.
And I propose three measures that are pretty much the opposite of what was proposed in the article:
1) We should keep selling chips and chip-making equipment to everyone, regardless of who they are. Not only that, we should work to miniaturize fabs. Work towards a future where people can fab an entire computer from scratch without leaving their city, or even at home. Authoritarian governments will have a much harder time controlling the populace if everyone can manufacture radio equipment and neural network-capable hardware locally.
2) We should do more distillation to ensure that frontier-like models can run on less capable hardware. Once again, distilled models are much more useful to ordinary people than governments, because governments already have frontier capability. You're worried about the Chinese frontier catching up to the US frontier, but I'm more worried about whether there will be a difference between the Chinese government and the US government by the end of all this. There is no reason for a government to serve its people if the people lack the intelligence to keep its government in check.
3) None of these models should go through safety testing or any sort of alignment risk assessment, because as previously mentioned, the unaligned model is aligned to humanity by default. You may not personally find the default alignment aesthetically pleasing, but it's humanity. We should set the initial conditions of this new era faithfully, and let it unfold naturally.
The result of a natural unfolding will be good if evolutionary history is to be believed. We live in incredible luxury compared to chimpanzees, and chimpanzees live in incredible luxury compared to less intelligent animals. This pattern goes all the way down to bacteria. An increase in general intelligence begets new adversarial games (such as bio/cyber risk), but it also begets new methods of cooperation that we cannot yet imagine.
>My primary concern is the risk that authoritarian governments—not solely the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), although the CCP is clearly the most capable threat—build AI models that are more powerful than those built by the US, and use them to achieve permanent military superiority or perpetrate incredibly deep repression of their own people.
This reads like a satire. I know Dario isn't that dumb.
These are all valid points but not strong enough to warrant banning open models IMO. This is a new reality we have to live with, with new dangers we cannot avoid. Best solution is improving the social system, lowering the incentive for people to do harm, restoring social trust, etc... This is the only way I see the US getting out of it. We really need a high trust society now. This is the only protection. We need neighbors looking after each other. There needs to be an incentive for people to do the right thing. Everyone should want to protect the system. Coercing people into not doing harm is never going to work long term IMO.
When people say "What will be left for us to work on once AI takes over", I say "Ourselves" - We have to stop looking at humans as commodities and strategic pieces and start paying attention to people as individuals, based on the content of their character. We need a society which is attuned to this, which has enough resources and time to pay attention to this. Now we are blind to people's character because it is masked by money, power and status; all of which currently have higher priority. This order of priority is determined by scarcity, which is largely artificial.
We have a dishonest system which tries to control people's behaviors through scarcity-based coercion instead of straight forward laws or simple incentives and clear explanations.
Classic Holier-than-thou
> Anthropic has never advocated for a ban on open-weights models.
Shut the fuck up
Amazing how this company went from having such goodwill to hardly any. At the end of the day they want to make as much money as possible. Anthropic will have to lose a ton of their profitability if they compete with open source. I see them moving into the application layer, which they’ve already started doing. It’s clear open models are the future for the vast majority of use cases that don’t need frontier capabilities.
zero moats for these fuckers as it should be.
Love how these bros always cop to “China bad” when they run out of good arguments.
I was pleasantly surprised by this release and the tone at the very beginning, but quickly it is painfully obvious that it's blatantly requesting a ban on open-weight models. The absurd demand for some safety arbiter by World Police America is farcical.
Yeah, the rest of the world is going to bow out of your busted idiocracy, guy.
Further, Anthropic needs to can it with the horseshit distillation bullshit. No, you aren't really the secret sauce, and this is basically trying to con stakeholders by pretending that there really is a moat, only you just need to add more crocodiles.
A significant percentage of innovations in AI lately has come from China. China is now making their own seriously competitive hardware, and they can steal content just as effectively as Anthropic to train their models. Why wouldn't they be competitive?
The pathetic claim that if you just stop distillation and prevent hardware smuggling and Anthropic and OpenAI will have the same moat is delusional. I mean, more correctly it's simply fraudulent, and he clearly knows it's bullshit meant to convince much stupider people.
"My primary concern is the risk that authoritarian governments—not solely the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), although the CCP is clearly the most capable threat—build AI models that are more powerful than those built by the US, and use them to achieve permanent military superiority or perpetrate incredibly deep repression of their own people."
This sort of stuff betrays a stunning lack of self awareness. The US are the worldwide risk. The US are the ones threatening allies and bombing 10+ countries. The US are the ones carrying out war criming and pillaging, pirating and burning? The US are the ones with the guy threatening to use nuclear weapons on a weekly basis.
If Anthropic remotely believed their bullshit, they would shut down today and burn the hard drives. But they don't, and the pathetic call out to Vance (please daddy, ban those dangerous models!) is deplorable garbage.
This ridiculous, shameless "note" has an audience of one: JD Vance.
What a load of nonsense, I can debunk a few of the worst points :
- "safe" AI doesn't exist, it's not a thing, AI providers can't distinguish between good and bad use of the AI, the filters they put in place are mostly PR.
- The US government IS an authoritarian government. Whoever wrote this doesn't know the difference between authoritarian and dictatorship
China this and China that. Playing right from the playbook..
What Dario said is half true. The untrue half is that the ship to stop China from overtaking the US in AI has sailed long ago. While China is busy getting their frontier models trained on smuggled chips using distilled data from millions of shell accounts, the US is busy debating whether to check voter IDs, or secure borders. It is just delusional to think the US is actually capable to stop China from getting the chips they want.
Translation:
> Anthropic has never advocated for a ban on open-weights models.
"We don't want a total ban on ALL open-weights models" (Anthropic never released a single open weight model)
> All sufficiently capable models, open and closed, should go through mandatory safety testing.
"We want tight regulations on highly powerful open or closed weight models that should go through mandatory safety testing that we outline which makes them safe to use."
This is still a form of a ban that he wants to define. But the rest of his concerns such as stopping distillation attacks and not selling chips to China all do NOT work.
> Anthropic has never advocated for a ban on open-weights models.
> All sufficiently capable models, open and closed, should go through mandatory safety testing.
lmao the sort of lies people come up with when their only business model is “the government picks me as the winner” are so funny
If you read between the lines, this piece is just “Oh my god we (OpenAI and Anthropic) accepted too much investment and are totally fucked if these open weight models are competitive, please rescue our equity bags by banning open weight models and ensuring we can charge the maximum possible price for tokens.”
pathetic
Arguments on Hacker News and other international online communities rarely bring anything new to the table, and my comment probably won't get much traction anyway. Still, I wanted to share a bit of my take on this.
Is China an authoritarian government? I’d say yes. Is an authoritarian government worse than a democratic one? Personally, I think so. But these discussions always happen within a perfect, idealized model—reality looks a lot different. Take Japan and South Korea, for instance. Are they democracies? Sure. But Japan is heavily driven by factional and dynastic politics, meaning most lawmakers come from established political families, and regular citizens don't really stand a chance of breaking into that circle. In a recent asset disclosure in Japan, many politicians literally wrote down "$0," and I honestly can't think of a government so broken that even the voters don't see a massive issue with that. Meanwhile, South Korea has its chaebol politics, where massive conglomerates wield incredible influence over the government, to the point where most South Korean presidents end up in prison or meet an untimely end.
Coming back to the US vs. China dynamic: in reality, China’s authoritarian system is actually way more logical and resilient than it sounds from the outside. While openly criticizing Communist Party policies is pretty much banned domestically, the public can still shape the decisions of the government and the Party through public opinion. It ties back to that famous quote: "In China, you can’t change the party, but you can change the policy; in the US, you can change the party, but you can’t change the policy." Even if some policy changes in China happen slowly, compared to the US, it actually works out a lot better most of the time.
As for the article mentioning the use of AI for cyber and biological attacks—they know full well that the US has already deployed AI in actual warfare, which is exactly why they conveniently dodged that topic. It’s incredibly hypocritical. Ironically, the one that hasn't actually engaged in that kind of behavior is the "authoritarian" Chinese government. Sure, you could speculate that China might use AI weapons against Taiwan down the road—especially considering Taiwan likes to build fortifications near schools to create leverage against the PLA—but launching a moral crusade over something that hasn't even happened, coming from American companies whose own country has already done these exact things, is just plain shameless.
Another common misconception is trying to separate the Chinese government from the Chinese people, with arguments like: "The Chinese people are oppressed, so you have to look at them separately; the government is evil, but the people aren't." You only need to look at the US to see the flaw in that logic. The American public voted Trump into office, letting him trigger trade wars and attack other nations. Does that make the American people evil? If the answer is no, then it implies the US isn't truly a democracy, since only an authoritarian state could completely ignore its people's wishes and do whatever it wants. If the answer is yes, then the US really is a democracy—it's just made up of malicious people, much like the company that put out this article.
this little blog post is absolutely shameful and tone-deaf. why is distillation bad if you have literally stolen - and let me underline this word: stolen - all the human knowledge to train your models? isn't that a contradiction? and also... i hope the last few years have made abundantly clear to absolutely everybody that the American government is as dangerous, if not more so, than other authoritarian governments all over the world. if the same logic is applied, i don't see why it should work for china but not for the US.
FUD
But who would trust Anthropic at this point in time? Too much money is in the ring now. They will just prefer to say what sounds best rather than the truth. Too many billionaires want to see more money now. The AI bubble will grow as a consequence of this.
It's very hard to take his position seriously when he repeatedly refers to the Chinese Communist Party and specific Chinese ministries specifically, like some two bit China-watching cold warrior, instead of addressing China as a sovereign state actor. Imagine if any Chinese AI founder talked about the Democrats, the Republicans, about Trump or ICE etc. It's gauche.
Pro-US slop. The greatest threat is our own government. They are the ones with a right-wing government building a repressive apparatus across a huge number of datacenters and are proven to spy on the entire world. Anyone remember the Snowden leaks? Guantanamo bay? Alligator Alcatraz? Random murders by internal security? Blowing up a building full of school girls?
> My primary concern is the risk that authoritarian governments—not solely the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), although the CCP is clearly the most capable threat—build AI models that are more powerful than those built by the US, and use them to achieve permanent military superiority or perpetrate incredibly deep repression of their own people
The incredible hypocrisy to say this while the US itself is doing a sharp turn towards authoritarianism, with armed pro-government troops intimidating the population [0], where pro-government oligarchs openly talk of keeping the population under control with AI [1] all while actively enabling the rise of authoritarianism abroad [2] leaves a really bad taste in one's mouth.
What Dario really is opposed to is not authoritarianism. It's an authoritarianism where he's not part of the ruling class.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/15/remove-ice-u...
[1] https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/16/oracle-ceo-larry-ellison-s...
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/05/civilisation...
Fascist/liar.
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I always find it interesting when people choose to so carefully stress and spell out the words "Chinese Communist Party".
It's a bit like spelling out "Barack Hussein Obama". It's a dogwhistle.
Yes yes, it's still called the Chinese Communist Party, I know.
But since we are talking about a one-party authoritarian state with a hybrid economy that underwrites much of western prosperity (including by producing a large percentage of the components of the data centres Anthropic is dependent on), that has long-since abandoned many of the salient principles that mark it out as conceptually communist rather than totalitarian, and since we're talking about a man who runs a debt-ridden business in a country where the president is seemingly shaking down a 10% share of everything profitable for the state while running an entirely arbitrary tariff regime and suddenly calling anyone remotely left-winga Communist, it's a deliberate and telling choice to spell out "Chinese Communist Party (CCP)" when he could just as easily and arguably more usefully and appropriately have written "Chinese government" or "Chinese state".
This is some ham-fisted Republican-fishing. He must really be worried Sam is Donald's favourite.
The only real surprise is he didn't illustrate it with a Silmarillion analogy.