alt Hacker News216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
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Most TV sets should not normally need microphones, and if they have that in some models (as long as there are models without), then there should be a hardware switch to disable them. However, "continuously sweep home networks, map secondary devices, and log microphone audio while appearing to be turned off" is also stealing and wasting your power.
If we aren't there already we're well on our way to a bizarre dystopia where our own internet subscriptions somehow cost more than our devices, which somehow generate enough money for their makers to justify embedding wireless modems for constant surveillance. If you buys a device at loss, for them spend a monthly fee to give it access to spy on you, because the data is so valuable, what on earth are they using it for? Or is everyone losing money?
What about LG smart soundbars? I always kept the TV offline but the soundbar, if not connected to internet, exposes an unprotected hotspot that anyone can connect to and take control over the soundbar, forcing you to connect it to internet.
I know I'm just paranoid, but when I see LG and these big advertising companies taking bad press from Gamers Nexus, I can't help but think the reporters need to be concerned about their safety.
My old Vizio TV is probably too old to do much of that, and it doesn't have a microphone, but regardless it's never connected to the internet. In fact, I removed the Wifi module altogether, as the TV would sometimes lock up and make a very loud, annoying screeching sound. Some online searching suggested it was temperature related and removing the WiFi module would help. It's just a standard board like you might find in a laptop. Removing it did help a lot, the lockups still happen very occasionally but are much reduced.
Makes me glad I bought a Sony TV which has the microphone on the remote - and is compatible with older remotes without a microphone, so the new remote with its microphone and sponsored streaming service buttons gathers dust (without batteries inserted) while I use an old remote.
Wait, do LG Webos TVs have microphones in the TV and/or in the remote? I am aware of the latter only.
I'm convinced Google TV firmware does something similar. I have an LED bar connected to the TV via USB and from time to time the bar turns on but the TV is "off". I think it's silently turning on to send some kind of telemetry.
Is anyone else thinking of cracking open the back cover and desoldering any wireless chips found? I have had a firewall rule to deny my LG TV and related domains, but that doesn't look to be enough
I could buy a tv in late 2014 and happened to be the last batch of bravia tvs pre android tv. Back then I was kind of bummed out that just a few weeks after that they announced the first tvs with android tv and now i was hooked with a smart-but-not-that-smart tv with a bunch of crappy ads, an unusable web browser and a non-customizable os.
But they stopped updating it years ago, none of its apps work anymore and the only "smart" feature that still works is screen mirroring feature. The tv part itself still works great. Not a 4k oled 120Hz shiny impressive thing but the image quality is still great. What I thought was an unlucky adquisition back then turned out to be a pretty good one.
Be interesting to know the true cost of smart TVs without the subsidized benefit of tracking that the "smart" element has.
A comparison of a dumb 4k panel vs the equivalent "smart" tv for example>
I wonder how many politicians, police, etc have these TVs and how sanguine they would be to find out all their conversations near the TVs have been recorded
These are great if you just want an old fashioned tv that is just a monitor:
https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
With no real influx of 8K tvs one of these will last quite a while until you need to upgrade.
George Orwell imagined a 'Telescreen' that also spies on you in '1984':
Telescreens.
Can anyone recommend a non-spying TV brand or a model? (Modern)
I pretty much assume every smart home device capable of doing this is doing it already.
Nothing gets connected to wifi. If temporary connection is required it gets a random one time use guest network SSID and pass that I remove after. (Yes they can collect and send setup metadata during this temporary access period but sometimes it is a worthwhile tradeoff)
I wonder if in the EU, if you refuse everything, you're protected or screwed. Juridically, you should be okay, but is it rational to trust them to respect the law when breaking it is probably more profitable?
Just don't buy a smart TV. Buy a good "dumb" TV (or just get a good large monitor), then hook it up to a set top box (with TV capabilities as needed).
Almost 13 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426
I'm fairly concerned that at some point in the future is will be almost zero-cost to include eSIM with devices and we'll have virtually no way to prevent devices from working as discovery for advert targeting.
The thing that everyone thinks their smart phones do is true of their televisions and they probably won't discuss it.
If your TV is rootable, you should root it! See: https://cani.rootmy.tv/
What is needed is accountability and transparency. Accountability is criminal charges. Transparency is warning labels on products similar to cigarette warnings. This is digital assault and needs to be treated that way.
I don't think the title (edit: of the thread merged into this one!) is accurate.
Starting at 16:04, they say that they merely claim that the TV has the capability to be used as a listening device. In the first 34 minutes, they don't seem to show that LG are actually recording audio from the surroundings (only from the content playing) and after that they start investigating whether you could record audio if you take control of the device (obviously yes).
So the video doesn't seem to support the claim in the article (edit: linked in the merged submission!) that "LG smart TVs continuously [...] log microphone audio while appearing to be turned off".
Of course, all the stuff LG are actually shown to be doing is bad nevertheless, particularly the "Automated Content Recognition".
I've just looked at the terms of service and privacy terms on an "old" C1 Oled, and it's "disgusting" the amount of spying they want to do. Turned everything off except for the minimum required to play Youtube on the tv. What a pos of a company. And yes I know (almost?) all of them are doing something similar
Can this be blocked with DNS / firewalls? Anyone done any work on that?
Is there a DNS setting in LG? Could it be as simple as switching to a local DNS server on your network running nextdns.io?
Well that's it. No more LG stuff for me. I bought the C1 OLED TV years ago, great TV, but with this BS, they lost me forever. And yes I connect the tv the wifi for YouTube and for my local media server. No, I do not want other intermediate devices , I want my TV to not spy on me.
If I am ever well off enough to consider a home theater, it seems I will need to make it a faraday cage and open up the TV to snip all of the microphones and disconnect the Wi-Fi antennae (or maybe even drill any modem chips on the circuitry if we want to go bonkers) as well as any webcams.
Do they make audiophile grade aluminum foil yet? Seems like a neat business opportunity for customers like me
Question: I recently upgraded my LG OLED and decided to not accept any of the terms and conditions. I just connect it to my Apple TV and it lives on that HDMI port permanently. How safe am I?
PS: I do have the TV connected to wifi for software updates (on a pi.holed network)
Reminder: you can connect it to your network, but block it from the internet at the router. That way you can still use Airplay/Chromecast.
I have an LG. Great OLED panel. It's never seen the internet.
There needs to be a crowdfunded jailbreak of all these TVs firmware so all of these dystopian features can be hard disabled. I'm guessing the mainboards of these things have zero protection from someone clamping on their flash ROMs or tapping the bus; these are hardly X-boxen or Playstations with uber-DRM. (Assuming you can't just force new unsigned modified firmware directly into them via USB)
“We’re listening?…”
I just use the LG screen for my Apple TV.
No network connection, apparently the BBC thinks I should use the LG app to watch UHD TV, perhaps they’re in league with LG
Related: What’s the story with Chrome continually triggering the “Chrome would like to access devices on your local network” prompt on MacOS?
It frequently happens when opening ChatGPT on web.
They used to make some nice equipment but I’ve stopped buying anything from LG and share that recommendation to friends and family.
I know I’m not the only one so I’m sure LG are experiencing the results of consumer democracy.
LG TVs have the best OLED displays and the most questionable privacy policy. So I picked best of both the worlds and left the TV off the internet. Apple TV is the way to go for me.
This is awful. I own a LG OLED tv which I love for its quality, but god I want to chuck it knowing all the sensitive conversations I’ve had in front of it. Literally all my personal calls happen in the room that tv lives. I’m livid.
I have a rooted LG C4. Beyond blocking things at the DNS level, not accepting terms, not using AI, I wonder if there’s some existing software solution or a documented step-by-step to remove this bloatware/spyware.
Can somebody attest or falsify that we’d all be better off with a huge gaming monitor plus an Apple TV? Expensive, of course, but privacy is the main consideration here.
Granted, I only watched one hour of the original video, but I get the feeling the way it is presented is a bit dishonest.
A lot of the "silent listening" they show in the video is on a TV they rooted. They start recordings through arecord manually. Or, when they show the transcripts from the recording, the AI voice search is clearly visible on the screen and was manually triggered by something.
Now, does a smart TV need all that hardware? Is a compromised TV a security hazard and smart TVs need to learn more in terms of security from modern smartphones in terms of privacy indicators, attested boot and more?
Sure.
But I do not see enough evidence that the TV is actually voice capturing all this stuff on its own, without any notice.
There is plenty of stuff on the video regarding the network scanning, ACR and more that is definitely concerning. And this is something LG actually does by themselves (when you agree to their ToS / privacy policy).
However, I think that mixing the ACR / network scanning in with "let's root the TV and actively start recording ourselves" mixes the narrative of "what LG actually does" versus "what a compromised TV can actually do", and makes it seem like LG is just recording, transcribing and submitting voice transcript automatically by themselves.
This was not proven here. And I feel that GamersNexus is just risking a lawsuit here by not separating these different concerns clear enough.
We are on our second Sceptre dumb tv. Cheap, good picture, happy. We handle streaming via Apple TV, though pivoting very slowly to jellyfin.
Is there a difference between a LG TV in EU and in USA?
We should start a movement #NoSmartDevice
We have sugar-free, lactose free I want Smart free devices!!!
When the first TV ships with a battery to keep running while unplugged, I'm dusting off my soldering iron and my digital circuits handbook.
I hate this. I hate having to be scared of every damn piece of technology spying on me. Of everything becoming a subscription. Of everything being sold to the highest bidder to be enshittified and gutted leaving a wake of low quality trash. This isn’t the future I worked for. This is a flea market for the Epstein class.
Isn't observation of LG's operation a violation? I mean it may fit the category "Intercepting live telemetry packets as they travel from the client machine to the company's servers can violate the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (Wiretap Act)"
Is there a list of which LG tvs do this?
I absolutely loathe my LG smart TV. Just switching to another input requires 3 button press.
I hope someone uses their free time to hack the OS and offer a clean and simple interface to make it a “dumb” TV.