TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

https://archive.is/V1NPt

I gave a talk at PyData Berlin on how to build your own TikTok recommendation algorithm. The TikTok personalized recommendation engine is the world's most valuable AI. It's TikTok's differentiation. It updates recommendations within 1 second of you clicking - at human perceivable latency. If your AI recommender has poor feature freshness, it will be perceived as slow, not intelligent - no matter how good the recommendations are.

TikTok's recommender is partly built on European Technology (Apache Flink for real-time feature computation), along with Kafka, and distributed model training infrastructure. The Monolith paper is misleading that the 'online training' is key. It is not. It is that your clicks are made available as features for predicitons in less than 1 second. You need a per-event stream processing architecture for this (like Flink - Feldera would be my modern choice as an incremental streaming engine).

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skZ1HcF7AsM

* Monolith paper - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2209.07663

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecting their ability to make their own choices? If we're worried about addictive patterns, those exist everywhere—streaming platforms, social feeds, gaming, even email notifications. My concern isn't whether TikTok's format is uniquely dangerous. It's whether we trust adults to manage their own media consumption, or if we need regulatory guardrails for every compelling app. I'd rather see us focus on media literacy and transparency than constantly asking governments to protect us from ourselves.

You can't legislate intelligence...

The headline overstates what actually happened. Ironic that they’re using clickbait headlines on an article about a service using tricks to get people to engage with something.

They haven’t concluded anything yet. It’s early in the process and they’re opening the process of having TikTok engage and respond.

The article starts with a headline the makes it sound like the conclusion was already made, then the more you read the more it becomes clear that this is the early part of an investigation, not an actual decision.

> Now European Union regulators say those same features that made TikTok so successful are likely illegal.

> No timeline was given on when authorities will make a final decision in the case.

I don't understand the legal side, but after gaining and kicking a Tiktok addiction during and after COVID, I believe it. I was there 4-8 hours a day and tried to scroll videos while washing dishes (and during nearly any other activity).

The press release: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_...

> At this stage, the Commission considers that TikTok needs to change the basic design of its service. For instance, by disabling key addictive features such as ‘infinite scroll' over time, implementing effective ‘screen time breaks', including during the night, and adapting its recommender system.

Most of these seem concretely doable, and maybe effective. But the core of the addictiveness comes from the "recommender system", and what are they supposed to do there? Start recommending worse content? How much worse do the recommendations have to be before the EC is satisfied?

Idk how to feel about this specifically but I kind of hope they come for Duolingo next. They are up to some similar mind hacking shit to keep people from leaving. There's the downright abusive streak management tactics that have become a major part of their brand and PR, and the lesson plans seem designed to plateau to prevent you from actually getting proficient enough in a language to ever unsub. They reset your cleared lessons and require you to redo them if they add new vocab to them, as well as randomly clearing them in the name of making you practice them again. I don't know what the solution is but I've known multiple people now who've gotten frustrated and blamed themselves for not being able to advance their skills with a language, but Duolingo's business model, like Tinder's, is completely opposed with the goals of their users. If Duolingo R&D discovered a magical new method of making you fluent in a language overnight, they would not sell it to you. Tinder R&D might have discovered the actual honest-to-God formula for True Love years ago and burned it because they can make more if you swipe forever.

I'm too late but I'm surprised HN crowd treats tiktok as some weaponized addiction machine. Youtube used to have a working recommendation system and it was usable too. Is it really bad to give me woodworking and learning chinese videos if that's what I'm interested in at the moment? If somebody is not interested in anything specific and just want to zone out, is it really different if he scrolls through tiktok or watches the same thing put into longer videos on TV or some other site? I see zero rational argument being made here. Should we ban bikes if they are the most efficient transportation mode in given area because people get addicted to them?

Maybe I don't get addicted easily, but after 30 minutes of forcing myself to watch tiktok, I just uninstalled it. Friends told me I didn't give it enough time to learn my tastes but... How could it, given that literally 100% of the videos in my interest areas were trash?

Banning infinite scroll comes close to banning good design. If removing pointless interruptions is illegal, we might as well throw every designer in prison. And why stop there? Why not force TikTok to add other pointless barriers, like making the user solve a puzzle before watching another video? What about other uninterrupted experiences, like watching TV?

I find twitter more addictive then TikTok. Should it be forced to make me click "next" before seeing another tweet?

Banning recommendation engines is also incredible. Is it really the EU's case that they're all illegal, from the youtube recommendation engine to amazon's "people who bought this also bought" to twitter's "who to follow"? Is TikTok's just too good?

> On Friday, the regulators released a preliminary decision that TikTok’s infinite scroll, auto-play features and recommendation algorithm amount to an “addictive design” that violated European Union laws for online safety.

How is that any different to Facebook?

So, I think many will reach the conclusion that TikTok's design is addictive. No problem here.

But, when I go to Youtube - owned by Google - and use those shorts (video shorts), I kind of "swipe down". Even on my desktop computer. This is also addictive until I eventually stop.

Why isn't Google also fined? Where does the fine approach stop? I am all for punishing corporations exploiting humans, so that is all fine by me. But I don't quite understand the rationale. It is not addictive like a drug, right? The behaviour solely origins via visual feedback. That's different to e. g. taking LSD. It's a bit strange to me. When is something addictive? Where is the boundary? One could also say this is simply good design that gets people's attention. Ads are also like that. Why are ads not made illegal? I would be in favour of that. So why aren't ads made illegal? They can contain addictive elements. They manipulate the viewer. They try to sell an image. Why is that not forbidden?

No, one branch of the EU (not European) government has said it is likely (there has been no ruling) that its illegal.

Its a good thing, but its not what the title says it is

Again, the most problematic in this is how vague and handwavy the regulation is.

> The Commission's investigation preliminarily indicates that TikTok did not adequately assess how these addictive features could harm the physical and mental wellbeing of its users, including minors and vulnerable adults.

> For example, by constantly ‘rewarding' users with new content, certain design features of TikTok fuel the urge to keep scrolling and shift the brain of users into ‘autopilot mode'. Scientific research shows that this may lead to compulsive behaviour and reduce users' self-control.

> Additionally, in its assessment, TikTok disregarded important indicators of compulsive use of the app, such as the time that minors spend on TikTok at night, the frequency with which users open the app, and other potential indicators.

This is comically unscientific language. It's entirely subjective what is adequate when framed like that. This is another law aimed at suing megacorps to extract fines, although i m not sure how they hope to get those fines from China.

Give a kid a phone with TikTok on it and observe them for a while. It's genuinely upsetting.

They'll spend hours with their heads down just silently looking at the thing. All desire to do anything else just vanishes. Then they freak out when you try to take it away from them.

The only obvious difference between them and someone on fent is the verticality of their posture.

I only tried it once and like 30 mins passed in the blink of an eye. Never again.

I hope they go after Whatnot, Youtube shorts, and LinkedIn as well.

LinkedIn has become such a pit of force-fed self-help vitriol it’s completely lost its purpose.

Had they invented Ice Cream in the 2020s, lawmakers of Europe would find it illegal for it's addictive properties. They'd also decree a universal milk fat percentage, perhaps even a law calling dairy farming slavery.

Anything but be competitive

I do think it's addictive, but also the very idea of media in general is to keep you around. Television channels try to display content their viewers enjoy, but they can only target broadly. The web allows sites to have way more personal recommendations, but banning it is essentially banning sites because people enjoy it too much.

I think short form content especially is basically brain rot, but I also don't know how you ban something simply because it's too good at providing content people enjoy. The result would just be a worse experience across the board, is that a win?

I guess a forced 5s video saying take a break after 20 minutes of doom scrolling wouldn't be the end of the world, but truely making it illegal doesn't make sense.

The trick bit is that addiction and showing people what they want to see are near indistinguishable. It's optimizing for same thing basically and don't think it'll be possible to legislate a clear distinction

So what's next, Hacker News is illegal because the point system encourages retention?

Here's a reading and listening tip for handling social media addiction:

Frank Possemato: How to Live an Analog Life in a Digital World: A Workbook for Living Soulfully in an Age of Overload

How to live an analog life in a digital world | Frank Possemato | TEDxBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMffdUgWCk

He does not say stop everything, but instead offers realistic tips to reduce one's dependency, e.g. he suggests to take breakes and training to stay offline for certain intervals (e.g. half an hour, or an hour)

Imagine having a government that demands a company like TikTok stop abusing its users instead of checks notes forcing its sale to your cronies so you can silence your critics. Must be nice.

I think algorithmic content recommendations must be banned from social media. Its too powerful wrt influencing the masses. People should go back to just seeing content from their friends.

I use X almost entirely from the desktop where I have an extension installed that lets me whitelist my follows, and see nothing else. I recently browsed the same feed on mobile ... and it was entirely different! I think I spent a half hour and saw zero content from my follows, just one ticktok style video after another. For those who find these services without value, I now understand. But I feel revolted rather than addicted. Will I now experience a mysterious compulsion to view the naked feed?

> On Friday, the regulators released a preliminary decision that TikTok’s infinite scroll, auto-play features and recommendation algorithm amount to an “addictive design” that violated European Union laws for online safety.

How is this any different from Reddit? From Instagram? Why single out TikTok?

Applying laws unevenly is a form of discrimination.

What other instances of "we did our job as little too well" are there?

I can think of tabacco and other drugs, but that's not really the same. Monopolistic behavior doesn't really fit either. Maybe Kleenex marketing doing so well their name became interchangeable with the word "tissue"?

Casually waiting for a legislative body to muster the courage of their convictions and just ban social media outright.

Europeans really need to get their heads out of their butts. Their solution to every problem is nanny state regulation.

They should do the same with Instagram and Youtube shorts... but wait, they are not chinese, they are allowed to mine us...

It's such an odd request to make something less enjoyable. If the EU wants a time limit on app use they should just impose it themselves.

Who runs their European operations? Is it the Chinese and not Oracle?

The ultimate flex as a product designer would be to put "Designed product UX so addictive that it was banned in Europe" on my resume.

Just curious for anyone who pays more attention to this than me: is the company being sanctioned by the EU for this behavior the one that US law forced an ownership change of or does that company only operate in the US?

In the US it is now legal because it was completely taken over by the hydra.

The simple fact the back button while on the main screen doesn't exit the app is something that honestly should be illegal and is not permitted in the app stores.

We are essentially saying that our kids should be allowed to smoke cigarettes and not doing anything about it.

Which country? Europe is a continent, with many different countries and many different laws.

Can Europe stop messing with TikTok & Apple and start fixing the mental health issues caused by Teams?

Very glad that my country India banned this vile rabid TikTok long ago, along with other suspicious/spyware/disruptive apps like PUBG. Good riddance.

Kind of funny coming from people who levy taxes on tobacco products all the time

Isn't this exactly the same with Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, etc.?

What makes TikTok different?

Nothing will happen. It is the EU. We bark and then roll over.

Direct link to EU Commission's statement: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_...

So will they also go after youtube?

Nothing will happen.

This is generational warfare. Imagine if we said boomers cannot watch TV anymore...

ok sooo, youtube in general I can watch 8h streams. I watch it insane. what about that