alt Hacker NewsMatrix messaging gaining ground in government IT
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I wonder why matrix isn't more widerspread at this point. It's open, it's e2ee, it works, it has client lib for integration with any tool..
What makes it not more popular ? Is it the federated approach ? The client applications that don't look really fancy ?
I was on a team that evaluated moving a significant portion of a product that should be used for government/healthcare onto Matrix. There were several drawbacks that made us NOT go this route:
- Olm/Megolm does not offer forward secrecy for group messaging
- Olm/Megolm does ensure end-to-end encryption for message data, but not for metadata.
- Federation makes it challenging to be GDPR compliant
- Synapse is very heavy, other implementations are less production ready
- For better or worse, the matrix foundation is under UK jurisdiction.
I'm sure I forget some of the nuance, but these were some of the major points. However, there are several government entities in Germany, France, Poland, etc, that can live with the limitations and DO self-host Matrix servers.
I won't go into the pair of high-severity vulns in 2025 (and the somewhat difficult mitigation) because that could hit anyone.
There is this phenomena where users of a product say they want something. But what they want is very different. People are not good at telling you what really matters to them. That's the main obstacle of Matrix's adaption I think.
Matrix tries to copy-cat all these other products. But in the end it feels like something trying to be all sorts of things and not quite doing it as well as the originals in every way. Plus you have this "confusing" security/crypto aspect. And then you have the whole issue with inconsistencies between clients.
You have to really commit to it, or matrix has to be the backend of some other more refined/specific app (like chat section on websites, like Disqus).
In my opinion, if you want Matrix adaption, stop talking about Matrix adaption, that's like talking about HTTP adaption. You want people to use clients, talk about clients. Let's talk about "Element" adaption. (side-chat: Please make names more searchable. ok, you want to use this generic/confusing term "Element", can you at least make it unique by calling it "Elemnt" with a weird spelling so it's more searchable?)
People don't like learning new and complex systems for the sake of it. It's a chore. I want to be able to tell people "let's use Element" and explain why they should use it. It would help if it had original features other products didn't have that it does really well. It's been over a year since i used Element, but I didn't like the UI at all, it felt like Teams but more clunky? perhaps the mobile app is better, I never tried it.
All that said, I think it's a great system, it's perfect for government systems too. they're not usually concerned about things looking great or having cosmetic features. I would very much prefer to use it over Teams or Slack personally. So long as it handles scheduling meetings, and managing things like booking conference rooms just as well.
On a related note, Discord recently announced ID verification for users. Matrix might become a viable option for those who want to opt out of Discord for their "circles" of friends.
Never heard of Matrix before (as a protocol) what's it's advantage over XMPP?
I deleted my matrix account after I receive some very nasty spam in form of Element Android notification. I think it wasn't Matrix direct fault, but as I used some Matrix chat groups and the list of member was public .. But I got really alarmed and angry when I receive so disgusting spam.
> while Element (formerly Vector and later Riot) is the name of the client app. Element the company, originally called New Vector Ltd, was spun out of Amdocs in 2017. A for-profit business, it rebranded as Element in 2020. Element.io provides both client apps and server software that run the Matrix protocol. As well as free FOSS versions of both, there are also paid-for commercial tools: the Element Pro client and the Element Server Suite Pro.
The is Matrix for you. A series of for-profit closures, merges, rebrands, and acquisions to increase synergy and unlock shareholder value. I'm staying away from this.
That government IT is gaining around this service just speaks to the sales initative of this for-profit machine.
whats wrong with IRC?
Related, 3 days ago:
European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams
I prefer tox
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Why govt needs e2ee? Transparency is all we need.
One thing I heard from some of my friends as a reason why they don't like using Matrix (via Element clients) was inability to use "stickers" like one can on WhatsApp, iMessage and other messaging apps. Apparently, this was important enough for them to lose interest in the platform over it.
I guess the bar is pretty high for consumer messengers these days?