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wahern • yesterday at 10:38 PM • 5 replies • view on HN

I find it easier to understand in terms of the Unix syscall API. `2>&1` literally translates as `dup2(1, 2)`, and indeed that's exactly how it works. In the classic unix shells that's all that happens; in more modern shells there may be some additional internal bookkeeping to remember state. Understanding it as dup2 means it's easier to understand how successive redirections work, though you also have to know that redirection operators are executed left-to-right, and traditionally each operator was executed immediately as it was parsed, left-to-right. The pipe operator works similarly, though it's a combination of fork and dup'ing, with the command being forked off from the shell as a child before processing the remainder of the line.

Though, understanding it this way makes the direction of the angled bracket a little odd; at least for me it's more natural to understand dup2(2, 1) as 2<1, as in make fd 2 a duplicate of fd 1, but in terms of abstract I/O semantics that would be misleading.

Replies

jez • today at 12:00 AM

Another fun consequence of this is that you can initialize otherwise-unset file descriptors this way:

    $ cat foo.sh
    #!/usr/bin/env bash

    >&1 echo "will print on stdout"
    >&2 echo "will print on stderr"
    >&3 echo "will print on fd 3"

    $ ./foo.sh 3>&1 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    will print on fd 3
It's a trick you can use if you've got a super chatty script or set of scripts, you want to silence or slurp up all of their output, but you still want to allow some mechanism for printing directly to the terminal.

The danger is that if you don't open it before running the script, you'll get an error:

    $ ./foo.sh
    will print on stdout
    will print on stderr
    ./foo.sh: line 5: 3: Bad file descriptor
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emmelaich • yesterday at 10:53 PM

Yep, there's a strong unifying feel between the Unix api, C, the shell, and also say Perl.

Which is lost when using more modern or languages foreign to Unix.

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kccqzy • today at 12:01 AM

And just like dup2 allows you to duplicate into a brand new file descriptor, shells also allow you to specify bigger numbers so you aren’t restricted to 1 and 2. This can be useful for things like communication between different parts of the same shell script.

niobe • today at 2:19 AM

I find it very intuitive as is

ifh-hn • yesterday at 11:49 PM

Haha, I'm even more confused now. I have no idea what dup is...

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