I was recently in the lookout for a new laptop. I wanted something BEEFFY! Specs wise but 13 inch at most.

I literally couldn't find anything on the PC side. I wanted an x86 because I prefer Linux Mint as my OS (didn't care about windows) , but it was impossible to find a good laptop with good GPU , more than 64gb ram and decent build materials (ive got a thinpad and the platic build is just terrible. The screen bends when pulling it to open the laptop).

So, if settled for a 128gb ram M4 max Macbookpro. It has been pretty solid so far. I'm a power user, so the RAM is used quite a lot (one of the reasons I wanted x86/Linux was to avoid virtualization overhead in docker/podman).

Macs are way more expensive than other laptops, but their level of tech sophistication is miles ahead of anyone.

Now, if only Asahi was more complete.

> This is a major challenge to Microsoft.

> Other than Microsoft nobody even makes decent laptops in the Windows world.

I get the impression that microsoft and the pc world have given up on consumer hardware and instead are completely focused on enterprise and ai. That's why windows 11 is saturated with bugs and is basically unusable, but enterprise is forced to buy it.

Microsoft's build quality is largely equivalent, but the press has already noticed that the value proposition at Microsoft is now lacking.

> Apple's newest MacBook is an impressive play for affordability, right as the Surface line is looking expensive and out of touch.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3077961

This is not primarily competing with the surface line of laptops, this is mostly competing with chromebooks which dominate schools. That's a completely different segment of devices.

I think the 2 laptops you mentioned are targeting different markets.

The Surface Laptop you linked to is - 16GB of RAM and 512GB of Storage (no 8GB of RAM option)

The $599 Mac Neo is 8GB of RAM and 256GB of Storage. It doesn't have a 16GB RAM option but a 512GB storage option is $699.

8GB RAM seems to me to be targeting folks who don't run a lot of local apps or multiple big apps

The surface laptop is a competitor to the MacBook Air, the cheaper Surface Laptop Go was the low cost attempt from MS.

Also, there are plenty of good laptops from HP, Asus, Lenovo, Acer, and others, the market is not that dire.

> Other than Microsoft nobody even makes decent laptops in the Windows world.

I completely agree. I actually quit like and get along with my Surface Laptop. It's a really nice computer overall, worthy. It's the closest you get to the same polish and usability that Apple has in their macbooks.

I absolutely love my M4 macbook pro, it's definitely the best laptop I've ever owned. I had an older macbook pro that I kept way past its lifetime too.

I don’t think it is just a hardware issue: Windows still just maps all movements and scrolling directly into pixels and lines. Most programs just slightly blur the viewport when scrolling to hide the latency, but that just adds even more latency. You can disable the scroll delay in the web browser settings, but not any of the new applications, like the new notepad

Whereas Apple uses smooth acceleration curves

> it uses 150% scaling (as opposed to the ideal 200%) which means you have subtle display artifacts

200% is ideal but scaling on Windows has gotten really good. I use 150% on a 4K monitor and it works well.

The ARM64 Surface Laptop is great and definitely matches the MacBook Air's quality, but yeah, there's no way it is competitive with the new Neo offering from Apple at current prices.

I hope this leads to a general decrease in price for laptops, but with the RAM crunch I don't see that happening…

This is really well put.

It's interesting, for years I have been trying to make my iPad a nice, slim laptop I could bring with me everywhere for lighter/coding specific tasks. I've gone through several keyboards trying to make this work. It never has.

Now with this laptop, I can do exactly this, while being cheaper than what I've been attempting to do with an iPad.

I think you're undervaluing touchscreen capability, which even the cheapest laptops offer now. Kids and non-tech folks have come to expect it by default.

Now that Apple is attempting to compete in this space, they'll have to pitch these folks on what macOS without touch capability offers over Windows with touch capability.

Maybe it will still sell well enough, maybe people aren't that stuck on touchscreens.

Not just Microsoft. Dell and HP must be having emergency meetings right about now...

Sometimes I wish I could just use any laptop and Remote Desktop into my gaming rig which is awesome. Then I can have whatever form factor laptop I want, but the problem is I think the latency still sucks (maybe not?) on stuff like Parsec even locally.

I have the Lenovo X1 and I'm very happy with it, though obviously that's in a pretty different price category than the Yoga, Surface, or Macbook Neo.

On the other hand, more money doesn't always mean better computer. I had a Dell XPS 9570 at a previous gig that had a lot of issues: coil whine, bad camera placement, terrible thermals, etc.

I agree. I read this and immediately thought to myself: The gloves are off.

The price point, the capability, the only thing stopping Apple at this point is the MDM stuff integrating it with other identity providers but its ahead of where it used to be.

> it uses 150% scaling (as opposed to the ideal 200%) which means you have subtle display artifacts

I agree with you, but I’m afraid Apple doesn’t agree with us. The recent MacBooks do not use 200% scaling out of the box anymore. It is a setting that only nerds use. I have no reason to believe that out of the box the default settings on this MacBook Neo will use 200% scaling either.

The Surface has 16GB of RAM vs 8GB on the Neo (Windows definitely eats RAM though so maybe that's par).

> I am typing this on an Lenovo Yoga, it has decent screen and keyboard, but the touchpad is horrible.

Can we talk about laptops that you can’t carry by the edge where your palm rests because it flexes the frame and registers it as a mouse down event …

PC to me is always best as a itx minitower form factor.

> The best laptop is now significantly cheaper than the horrible ones.

Possibly, but I would wait for reviews to make that call. The hardware is slower than other MacBooks; memory may be slower, too, and other hardware may be slightly worse in quality.

For a casual computer at home, I'd get one. Everything I do is practically web based anyway.

Some of the new HP laptops are pretty well designed and have reasonable prices.

That Surface has 16GB RAM though.

> Your new MacBook Neo. Just the way you want it[sic]. 13-inch MacBook Neo in Indigo A18 Pro, 6-core CPU, 5-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine Apple Intelligence Footnote ※

    8GB unified memory
    256GB SSD storage
    U.S. English Magic Keyboard with Lock Key
    20W USB‑C Power Adapter

    Two USB-C ports, 3.5 mm headphone jack
    Support for one external display

I'll just chime in to say that not everyone cares about the features you mentioned that much. Keyboard, touchpad, looks are the last things I think about when comparing laptops. Not to lessen your preferences, just to point out that there's a variety of viewpoints.

The Dell XPS 13 plus 9320 looks pretty good design wise

> which means you have subtle display artifacts.

No. 150÷ just means 96dpi * 1.5

Doesn't the surface have a touch screen?

I don't really see how it's a competitor if it doesn't have a touch screen.

MSFT up 1.84% today..

Not really, because Surface isn't what most folks buying PCs get.

And those prices don't compute in many European countries, Africa, and most likely other regions as well.

>Other than Microsoft nobody even makes decent laptops in the Windows world

Thinkpads.

Or in general any business laptop, like HP Elitebook or Dell Presicion.

But they are not cheap at all haha

If you want performace get a desktop!

all apple needs, to kill surface laptops entirely, is to enable windows to run on m series laptops without issues.

I don't know why the downvotes, maybe someone can chime in if there is more to surface laptop? because i am using one laptop, and much prefer to use windows on M4 macbook pro instead.