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matricksyesterday at 5:37 PM1 replyview on HN

> There's precious little training material left that isn't generated by LLMs themselves.

Percentage-wise this is quite exaggerated.

> Consider this to be model collapse (i.e. we might be at the best SOTA possible with the approach we use today - any further training is going to degrade it).

You consider this above factor to lead to model collapse? You’ve only mentioned one factor here; this isn’t enough. I’m aware of the GIGO factor, yes. Still there are at least ~5 other key factors needed to make a halfway decent scaling prediction.

It is worth mentioning one outside view here: any one human technology tends to advance as long as there are incentives and/or enthusiasts that push it. I don’t usually bet against motivated humans eventually getting somewhere, provided they aren’t trying to exceed the actual laws of physics. There are bets I find interesting: future scenarios, rates of change, technological interactions, and new discoveries.

Here are two predictions I have high uncertainty about. First, the transformer as an architectural construct will NOT be tossed out within the next five years because something better at the same level is found. Second, SoTA AI performance advances probably due to better fine-tuning training methods, hybrid architectures, and agent workflows.


Replies

lelanthrantoday at 5:31 AM

> There's precious little training material left that isn't generated by LLMs themselves.

> Percentage-wise this is quite exaggerated.

How exaggerated?

a) The percentage is not static, but continuously increasing.

b) Even if it were static, you only need a few generations for even a small percentage to matter.

> You consider this above factor to lead to model collapse? You’ve only mentioned one factor here; this isn’t enough. I’m aware of the GIGO factor, yes. Still there are at least ~5 other key factors needed to make a halfway decent scaling prediction.

What are those other factors, and why isn't GIGO sufficient for model collapse?