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LoganDarktoday at 3:21 PM4 repliesview on HN

I really want something between Sequoia and Tahoe. (Probably mostly Sequoia, but with targeted applications of Liquid Glass.) I don't like how Tahoe treats everything as floating on top, as if properly dividing windows into sidebars and panels is wrong... There's so much extra padding and rounding now, I hate it. Everything's lost the depth, detail and cleanliness it used to have, replaced by this bubbly mess. Like, sheets don't even slide out anymore, they overlay like on iOS. The charm, expressivity, and, well, Mac-ness is gone.

I love Liquid Glass - the blur and refractive effects are so pretty and technically impressive - but it should be used tastefully instead of this nonsense. I feel like Tahoe in general is straying way, way too far from the battle-tested Cocoa foundation and into this total top-down crap. Liquid Glass feels like some sort of shareholder-enforced enshittification.

macOS is supposed to be defined from the bottom up; it always has been. There has always been importance in having a solid base; a robust foundation for developers to build on. HIG, Cocoa, CoreGraphics, all of that is in service of this. The user experience and vertical integration is a result of this and couldn't exist without it.

There's so much wrong with Tahoe that goes against everything Mac has ever been. We don't want to dumb down the interface; that has never been the goal. The goal has always been to make the interface intuitive enough that anyone can learn it. macOS and iOS are fundamentally different platforms with fundamentally different design constraints and considerations.

Icons being able to escape the squircle was supposed to be a reflection of the fact that apps on Mac are less contained than apps on iOS. They have more expressive power and more advanced capabilities. You're working closer to the metal and in a less controlled environment. Because of that, you can do more and you're not constrained to the flows of the system.

iOS always hasn't been this. The constraints of touch are different than the constraints of the desktop. Steve Jobs spoke about this a lot back in his day, about why iOS is so much more locked-down than Mac.

But Mac has always been a platform for freedom and control. And Tahoe strips the soul of that.


Replies

hackyhackytoday at 5:37 PM

> But Mac has always been a platform for freedom and control.

My impress has always been the opposite: MacOS is "opinionated", and the user can either accept the Apple way of doing UI or can take a hike.

MacOS has offered token customization, such as allowing the user to change the color of menu bar highlights, but any substantive change required 3rd party intervention, which would inevitably cease to function at the next upgrade.

These days the OS is even more locked down, making it all but impossible to modify OS files.

signal11today at 5:30 PM

> There's so much extra padding and rounding now

I don’t like it either, but I wonder if that’s to support the touch-enabled Macs that the rumor mill is reporting about right now.

In any case, Tahoe has many other issues beyond padding.

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krackerstoday at 6:22 PM

Catalyst was already sort of a death knell, since it's an admission that it's ok to port over iPhone/iPad HIG to mac. Maybe swiftUI too, since it's replacing appkit and all its various affordances.

rwctoday at 5:09 PM

"shareholder-enforced enshittification" what on earth could this possibly mean?

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