alt Hacker News> I think a problem is that phones, as a concept, are communication first, rather than general computing first.
I use all kinds of computers for communication. I'm communicating with you on my desktop. I had a call earlier on my laptop. And a phone IS a computer, so why pretend it's not?
> If you want to partake in social networks, messaging, work communication, banking, etc you're at the mercy of the service's owner and their moat. You can't access Instagram in any other way than their app, and at that point an open OS doesn't help a lot.
I wouldn't use proprietary work tools on a personal device. It's not good hygiene.
I don't care if Instagram requires an app on a non-rooted phone with verified Google attestations because I don't use it and it's not essential.
Banking apps ARE a problem because a lot of banks don't let you use their site without their app at all. That should be solved with regulations - give people a FOSS banking app or, better yet, an API, so they can bank however they want to. Let us create FOSS interfaces for the different banks. Right now we need to revert the regulations who more or less force us to rely on Google or Apple's attestation. Internet banking is important both because there's a trend, even in countries where cash is still widely used, to have places that don't take cash, and because it's a highly regulated system paid for my taxes - I should be able to participate in a modern way with bullshit restrictions allegedly made to prevent someone's grandpa from getting hacked or phished.
But if I can't access my bank online, I'm not going to bow my head and buy a bank-approved phone with a bank-approved OS and a bank-approved $tech_company account. Who banks that often that they really need to do that, outside of places like Sweden where cash is almost dead?
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>I use all kinds of computers for communication. I'm communicating with you on my desktop.
Sure, now get a date, connect with old friends, get invited to a party or join your children's school parent groups exclusively on free software.
>And a phone IS a computer, so why pretend it's not?
I agree we shouldn't, I'm just saying that it's unlikely for that need to meet a large enough demand.
You might consider Instagram, whatsapp or similar apps personally not essential, but for many (I would say most) people they are - if not truly essential for living, at least essential in the sense that they don't have much use for their phone outside of those apps.
Which was my point, as long as the main use of a phone requires passing through meta's (or whoever else's) hoops, it's going to be a hard battle.
The only minimally mainstream uses of a phone that currently lie outside the walled garden are piracy and emulators, and that's already a stretch.
> Who banks that often that they really need to do that, outside of places like Sweden where cash is almost dead?
I often pay cash in physical stores, but when buying things online I (and every other Dutch person) use Ideal (Wero). That means authorising each payment via my bank, and that means either using my smartphone (GrapheneOS) with the bank's app, or using the bank provided OTP device with my debit card inserted.
Using my smartphone is, unfortunately, the easiest way. I hate both options for the fact that I need to fetch either my smartphone or my debit card though.
Banks want their stupid app because it is the easiest way to keep some client-side secret secure in a nearly fool-proof manner. I can do everything I want in any browser, but authorisation and authentication happens by means of that app, so even just logging in means scanning a QR code with the app, and then continuing in the browser of any device I want.
I think most people use bank several times a week at the very least. Some do it constantly and put debit cards on their smartphones and concentrate everything financial on that single device, but even folk who keep ready amounts of cash on hand and don't buy things online too often bank several times a month, even if just to pay taxes and keep an eye on their finances.