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dmktoday at 12:10 AM13 repliesview on HN

The quote from the CMU guy about modern Agile and DevOps approaches challenging architectural discipline is a nice way of saying most of us have completely forgotten how to build deterministic systems. Time-triggered Ethernet with strict frame scheduling feels like it's from a parallel universe compared to how we ship software now.


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carefree-bobtoday at 4:37 AM

During the time of the first Apollo missions, a dominant portion of computing research was funded by the defense department and related arms of government, making this type of deterministic and WCET (worst case execution time) a dominant computing paradigm. Now that we have a huge free market for things like online shopping and social media, this is a bit of a neglected field and suffers from poor investment and mindshare, but I think it's still a fascinating field with some really interesting algorithms -- check out the work of Frank Mueller or Johann Blieberger.

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ggmtoday at 7:35 AM

Time triggered Ethernet is part of aircraft certified data bus and has a deep, decades long history. I believe INRIA did work on this, feeding Airbus maybe. It makes perfect sense when you can design for it. An aircraft is a bounded problem space of inputs and outputs which can have deterministic required minima and then you can build for it, and hopefully even have headroom for extras.

Ethernet is such a misnomer for something which now is innately about a switching core ASIC or special purpose hardware, and direct (optical even) connects to a device.

I'm sure there are also buses, dual redundant, master/slave failover, you name it. And given it's air or space probably a clockwork backup with a squirrel.

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anymouse123456today at 11:26 AM

Some of us still work on embedded systems with real-time guarantees.

Believe it or not, at least some of those modern practices (unit testing, CI, etc) do make a big (positive) difference there.

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iknowstufftoday at 3:00 AM

Tesla’s Cybertruck uses that in its ethernet as well!

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guentherttoday at 9:49 AM

I think he refers to SpaceWire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceWire.

arduanikatoday at 1:39 AM

You could even say that part of the value of Artemis is that we're remembering how to do some very hard things, including the software side. This is something that you can't fake. In a world where one of the more plausible threats of AI is the atrophy of real human skills -- the goose that lays the golden eggs that trains the models -- this is a software feat where I'd claim you couldn't rely on vibe code, at least not fully.

That alone is worth my tax dollars.

dyauspitrtoday at 3:46 AM

Agile is not meant to make solid, robust products. It’s so you can make product fragments/iterations quickly, with okay quality and out to the customer asap to maximize profits.

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tayk47999today at 12:22 AM

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pjmlptoday at 5:27 AM

As 70's child that was there when the whole agile took over, and systems engineer got rebranded as devops, I fully agree with them.

Add TDD, XP and mob programming as well.

While in some ways better than pure waterfall, most companies never adopted them fully, while in some scenarios they are more fit to a Silicon Valley TV show than anything else.

vascotoday at 4:27 AM

It's not like the approach they took is any different. Just slapped 8x the number of computers on it for calculating the same thing and wait to see if they disagree. Not the pinnacle of engineering. The equivalent of throwing money at the problem.

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mvkeltoday at 2:08 AM

If you look at code as art, where its value is a measure of the effort it takes to make, sure.

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ramraj07today at 12:33 AM

I take the opposite message from that line - out of touch teams working on something so over budget and so overdue, and so bureaucratic, and with such an insanely poor history of success, and they talk as if they have cured cancer.

This is the equivalent of Altavista touting how amazing their custom server racks are when Google just starts up on a rack of naked motherboards and eats their lunch and then the world.

Lets at least wait till the capsule comes back safely before touting how much better they are than "DevOps" teams running websites, apparently a comparison that's somehow relevant here to stoke egos.

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