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microtonaltoday at 6:14 PM3 repliesview on HN

I think one of the main issues is that end-to-end message encryption is a sham as long as backups are not encrypted. I could have good device security, but if the person I'm talking to does not use ADP, iMessage and WhatsApp messages get backed up with only at-rest encryption (I think Signal opts out of standard iOS backups) and possibly the same for backups of the iPhone notification database (which the article suggests as a possibility).

Similarly on Android, WhatsApp suggests unencrypted backups to Google Drive by default.

Putting on my tinfoil hat, I am pretty sure that Google/Apple/Meta have some deal (successor to PRISM) where end-to-end encrypted messaging is tolerated as long as they have defaults that make it possible to access chats anyway. Apple not enabling ADP by default and WhatsApp doing Google Drive backups that are not end-to-end encrypted is the implementation. Since most people just use the defaults, it undermines security of people who care.

It's a 'win-win', the tech companies can wash their hands in innocence, the agencies get access to data, and phone users believe that they are chatting in a secure/private manner.


Replies

AJ007today at 6:28 PM

"end-to-end message encryption is a sham as long as" -- I agree with that but would add even more caveats. If someone can't list those caveats off the top of their head they shouldn't be pretending they aren't able to communicate securely.

Just look at Salt Typhoon, every single person should be way more paranoid than they are, including government & agency officials. The attach surface and potential damage - financial and reputation - will only get worse with AI automation and impersonation, and that's for people who are doing nothing interesting and are law abiding citizens.

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tapoxitoday at 6:59 PM

Signal data is not backed up, they have a local backup solution and an in-app e2e cloud backup for $2/month.

alfiedotwtftoday at 8:04 PM

This is what I’ve always hated with Apple Time Machine, which I think MUST have been deliberate:

    - create an encrypted disk
    - install Mac OS on the encrypted disk
    - use Time Machine to back it up with encrypt turned on
All good so far. Ok, time to restore:

    - Restore from Time Machine
    - enjoy your PLAIN TEXT install :poo:
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