In the last few years Chinese manufacturing has reached a very high-level. The reason most people still believe that Chinese-made stuff is poor quality is because they will do what they are told and they are usually told “make this as cheap as possible” by whoever is paying the bills.

While I reckon some other countries still have specialist manufacturing in key areas that surpasses China, most “common” parts can be made in China to a standard that meets or exceeds Western countries, if you’re willing to pay for it.

Vertical integration matters. If BYD controls much of the chain from the mine to the ship, they’re not paying everyone else’s margin along the way. That can translate into more car for the money.

I own a BYD Tang, so I’m biased, but the value for money has been hard to beat.

Scale probably helps too. When you sell millions of cars using many of the same parts, availability is better and parts are more likely to stay affordable than on low-volume models with lots of redesigns.

I have a Chinese EV too, an MG4 built by SAIC. It’s a really cheap car, significantly cheaper than its non-Chinese counterparts like the VW ID.3 or (roughly) a Hyundai Kona.

The factory rust protection was maybe a bit on the lighter side, but everything else on it looks completely normal. The drivetrain is simple (no heat exchange mechanism between battery coolant and motor coolant, a slightly whiny motor), but also genuinely competent and modern for a 2022 design (a mature skateboard RWD platform with a thin CTP battery with large cells and generous cell/coolant heat exchange). There are no obvious wtf solutions, nothing that would look too thin or too flimsy. The infotainment and the SW of the car does have the occasional funny moments, but all that is happening on what looks and feels like a solid piece of hardware.

>The control arms, subframes, etc all look good and don't fit the 'chinese car bad' narrative you always hear.

While I think the "chinese quality bad" narrative still applies to many Chinese brands, this isn't as universal as it was in the past.

I think my eyes were first opened when I bought myself a Huawei phone(before the Google ban). My first few smartphones had been Samsung, I've always felt the term "planned obsolence" was the best way to describe these phones: After just a year, the phone felt considerably slower, and after two it was almost unusable.

Huawei flagship phones were similar in price to Samsung, but I felt they lasted way longer.

People talking about Chinese manufacturing all being junk are completely stuck in the past.

And they have really good designs (after all, they are taking inspiration from the most succesful european cars. I saw the station wagon the other day, it's amazing. the octavia EV as it should be.)

The problem is always going to be: what's going to happen in 10 years, or whatever, after warranty expires?

The problem with vertical integration is for the customer, and it's repairs: traditional manufacturing is more expensive because you have a constellation of companies manufacturing pars with official and unofficial second sources. While this increases the overall cost of the vehichle, it decreases the final price of every component because the customer (independent mechanic) can choose to use a different source. The market working as intended.

BYD is currently the only EV i would consider, because it's the best value and the engineering quality is indeed high, but because i want to own, not rent, i'm preoccupied of what's going to happen in X years.

Yes, it's the same fear we had three-four decades ago when toyota/suzuki/kia entered the european market, that bet paid off but also because cost of repairs went down over time as they were also traditional manufacturers. (Yet for some exotic components you still must go to the OEM, and pay 2-3 times the equivalent sensor/component for an european car.)

However, with vertical integration you are always at mercy of the manufacturer. Better engineering, yes. Better integration, better efficiency, but you will suffer for repairs if you can't have second sources.

Think apple. (and tesla. but tesla is shit quality)

Or john deere.

BYD are genuinely decent cars. And they've skyrocketed in popularity across parts of the world.

In the UK the major car dealers are franchises, and you tend to see for example a Ford garage next to a Toyota garage, and they are operated by the same company. Most of these places have closed one of the branded ones and turned it into a BYD franchise dealership. Theres so many of them across the country now.

I'd take a BYD over something like a Tesla thats for sure - far better cars, it's not even a fair comparison anymore.

I dare say they'll struggle a little more in the US with the whole "China bad" propaganda engrained into society, which is likely why BYD have gone for the agressive expansion in Europe instead.

It will be interesting to see if they can overcome the horrible resale value. The market seems to think these are disposable one owner only vehicles.

>I have to say I'm super impressed with how heavy duty everything is.

But do you actually have a frame of reference though?

It's really easy to make stuff look good and then have it suck because someone in some other department nerfed it.

I'm not saying they're bad but HN is not a community I trust to make such assessments.

You cannot just eye ball a part and say is "high quality"

> all look good and don't fit the 'chinese car bad' narrative you always hear.

“No wonder this circuit failed, it says made in Japan”

“What do you mean doc, all the best stuff is made in Japan”

"chinese X bad" is really ignorant. One in 6 people on the planet lives in China, it's a gargantuan country that is the world leader in manufacturing. You're going to have a high variance of quality output for the mere fact that the overall output is massive.

People often equate low-value Chinese manufacturing that focuses on low cost with their manufacturing quality across all fields.

I'd rather own Chinese everything over American. Everything America makes is slop and corners are cut for profits so the owners of companies can own their third home and maybe a yacht. The truth is Chinese engineering quality exceeds the West in almost every domain at this point.

I'd move there given the opportunity, the business owners of America are willing to poison and put the lives of their fellow citizens at risk for literal pieces of paper. I'm ashamed to be American.