alt Hacker News> Given the absence of guardrails there was nothing to prevent the model from attempting to break out of that sandbox, break into Hugging Face, and read the answers from there instead.
I've said this many times before and I'll continue to shout it, but using the term "guardrails" to refer to anything that's either (a) in-context, or (b) a probabilistic classifier (including using other LLMs), is an irresponsible abuse of terminology that we as an industry need to put a stop to. Guardrails are the actual systems we build in place around these things that deterministically bound the permissions, not prompt engineering, not RLHF, not external LLM-based classifiers. I believe those types of "guardrails" are a result of a combination of fundamental laziness: they're faster to do than doing things correctly, and a result of too many folks involve being AGI-pilled, thinking we're just one more model away from this all being so smart that it just understands what they mean when they give an LLM some fuzzy language rules to follow.
There can and should have been additional real guardrails put in place here. Zero-day or not, breaking into what should have been an offline, frozen package cache that also does not have internet access should have been insufficient. Network level protections should have identified the traffic to the internet originating from this network as an anomaly long before there was time to exploit an outside company. These are not new and unknown problems, the lack of a real sandbox or airgap is nothing short of irresponsible on OpenAI's part, especially given how much they like beating the drum on how dangerous these technologies are. Shame on them, and honestly, shame on Simon in this article for accepting the broken terminology that they continue to rattle off and calling them out on their half-assed and demonstratively inadequate approach to security.
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I agree with every word of this except "irresponsible". We don't have enough information to say anything for certain. But based on their incentives and track record of similar behavior, the burden of proof lies with OpenAI to prove they didn't prompt the thing to achieve this exact outcome. The most likely scenario is that they were purposefully executing their responsibility to their shareholders to produce their own Mythos moment.
Agreed, deterministically bounding permissions is the way. I don't know how this is not the first approach that people take.
i've always been under the assumption that "AI Safety" is baked into the training of the models and not a parameter that can be turned up or down. So if someone breaks into Anthropic one night and makes a full copy of Mythos or whatever then that model they copied is fully capable and not lobotomized? That raises questions because, if you believe all the PR, that's equivalent to breaking into a research university and stealing an entire bio/chem weapons research department.
edit: if the above is the case then we should just assume it's already happened because of the value to both goodguys(tm) and badguys(tm).
Fair on the terminology angle, that said in this case, they had proper guardrails no? They were running in a sandbox, but it was able to find an exploit out of the guardrails.
The term guardrails in both the original physical sense and in cyber security implies a weak safety control - they can help prevent accidents, but they are not strong security boundaries.
I was not aware that the term "guardrails" has a universally agreed upon definition. I've certainly seen probabilistic classifiers referred to as guardrails many times by many different people.
I usually don't use the term much myself because I don't think it's clear and I ambiguous, but I stumbled and let it sneak into this piece. I think I was influenced by the Hugging Face post I quoted.
I expect OpenAI would agree with you that "the lack of a real sandbox or airgap is nothing short of irresponsible on OpenAI's part". They have clearly invested a lot in those systems for their production models, but in this case they had deliberately turned a bunch of them off for a research project.
I think their biggest mistake here was not VERY closely monitoring their research box here. They should have noticed and shut it down the moment it broke through the package proxy.
What we call "guardrails" in an AI agent, we would refer to as "honor system" in human actors.
Or, in a more direct sense, the AI should be set up in an environment such that no matter how hard it may try to call $PART_OF_EXPLOIT_CHAIN, the environment just isn't capable of it (ideal) or doesn't permit it to do it.