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doublerabbittoday at 2:28 PM1 replyview on HN

I'll agree to disagree; on this. It's moot at this point. I do however respect your view. Zfs, rSync were just basic examples but where you need to schedule OS commands, zfs snapshots, sync or other system utilities Bash will always be my go to wrapper for it's native-ness to the shell. Maybe my head is more warped for the archaic type of language as I do enjoy Perl however using both Bash and Python is no crime. One orchestrates, one executes.

I don't use Linux and I come from the Unix side of things, FreeBSD is my daily driver, server OS of choice and my father was a Telecoms/unix engineer, maybe that's why. Myself I'm not keen on Python and would personally use something more rough, like ruby if bash was to exit though the door.

I've encountered work systems where backups were performed worked, based on a bash script and everything else on the system was bricked. Nothing would work apart from a shell and a bash script.

I don't disagree, the popularity of Python does make ease. The ecosystem is verse and if someone leaves, someone can pickup where they left up pretty quickly. I just had to shred my (Tcl) PXE server project this week that I created for the VisualFX company gig I'm currently working at.

Now that they are wanting it being Python based, it's soul destroying to get it thrown back in the face when it's been powering company infrastructure for a year only for a LLM to regurgitate what you've worked on for a hard year. It worked flawlessly only for it to produce a Python equivalent in seconds. Python interacting with tFTP, PXE, HTTP , self-generation of Kickstart files, dhcp .. it's a mess and that's what I mean in LoC. 400 lines of Tcl and it works a one click button button.

Maybe I am bias against python because all projects are now within the: "It must be python!" attitude but maybe back in the 80's it was "It must be perl!". I don't know, I only picked up the tail-end of the camel being only 37. Python feels like a constant washed used towel passed from engineer to engineer.

My feel is that a company should be using multiple languages but that costs money. My own project runs on NaviServer, Tcl and Crystal and it glues well but Tcl always was a glue language.

Each to their own, Python isn't for me, it has it's own merits and happy to agree with but I'm not going to praise it to as a shell based language. Python can be a ungodly mess, which I find when you start to incorporate it with relic system services. The debt that LLM's are piling on it isn't healthy.


Replies

zbentleytoday at 2:35 PM

That's all fair.

I don't think we should abolish sh or anything; it's one of the only truly ubiquitous tools. And folks should know it, the same way they should know nano or ed or whatnot in case they ever get on a system without vim. I just wish it weren't the first resort for so many tasks, you know?

Nitty:

> I've encountered work systems where backups were performed work, based on a bash script and everything else on the system was bricked

I've had better luck with Python in those cases. Even when the shell works, some of the programs my shell scripts call out to are often damaged by whatever broke the system. Python's capabilities are more or less present in memory after "import" and rely on fewer external programs in most cases.

We're similarly aged; I think you might be lucky to have had a lot of fun with tools like Perl early in your career. I got dumped into something of a shell/C/Perl salt mine and had to develop deep expertise in things that I saw more mis-use of than benefit from, so when I discovered alternatives they felt a lot more compelling. Different strokes for different folks I guess. At least we can be thankful that Perl and Python got popular for automation before JavaScript did.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.