logoalt Hacker News

onlyrealcuzzoyesterday at 3:16 PM4 repliesview on HN

What makes this insanely hard to predict is that the compute needed for the same quality output has roughly gone down 90% every 18 months for ~5 years.

1) We don't know how long that trend will continue, but you do know where to look for when it may end (if smaller sized models continue to compress the knowledge effectively of larger models).

2) We don't know when the appetite for higher cost models might go down and by how much if smaller models get "good enough" and price becomes far more important.

It is entirely possible that 5 years from now, there's >100x LLM inference going on - but demand for AI chips (including memory) is only 2x or less.

It is also entirely possible that at some size - LLMs pick up some emergent capability that doesn't scale well to smaller sizes - and that there's an incredible boost to demand to get that capability.

It's just very hard to predict.


Replies

mattnewtonyesterday at 3:57 PM

I think efficiency is unlikely to result in lower demand for compute, instead more useful compute per watt increases the value of that compute; and we are not going to run out of economically useful things to do with it anytime soon on the demand side.

The harder thing to forecast for me is if we hit a wall on increasing efficiency, either on the model weights side or silicon side, with current approaches. If we have to switch to something like burning the model weights into silicon to continue to make gains, then the current math on general purpose accelerators might be upside down.

show 4 replies
hylarideyesterday at 6:22 PM

It's also hard to predict how much money will be burned going down wrong avenues. The internet was the future, but it took a lot of failed companies to eventually land on a sustainable model that brought us the giants we have today.

Railways were also the future, but that didn't stop a rush to build out (often subsidized) lines that were ultimately uneconomical (either because they were corrupt or the planned settlements never arrived).

If AI is similar, then there's going to be a long slowdown on compute spend until the surplus is worked through. A good historical analogy could be the fiber optic buildouts of the late 1990s. The demand for data never really went down much, but the industry eventually commodified and took down some large companies (Nortel, especially)

aurareturntoday at 4:42 AM

  It is entirely possible that 5 years from now, there's >100x LLM inference going on - but demand for AI chips (including memory) is only 2x or less.
I doubt it. If LLM inference efficiency is 50x better than today, then there could be 1000x increase in inference volume due and we'll end up needing even more chips.

Jevons paradox should win out for a long time for AI.

When internet connections got faster than 56k modems, we didn't use the same amount of bandwidth but faster. We used more bandwidth doing things like 4k streaming. I see the same in AI inference. If AI inference is that much more efficient, it will just enable more use cases for AI.

See for example, internet traffic over time: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS779VS...

Even after so many years, internet traffic continues to grow at an increasing rate.

ameliusyesterday at 5:26 PM

Nvidia's great superpower is flexibility. You can easily run models of very different types on the same card; and their hardware is great for R&D.

However, at some point AI may be good enough for most people and then it makes sense to make an ASIC for the model (or group of models); and at that point you don't need Nvidia.

I suppose this scenario will happen in various moments at different levels.