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yardietoday at 1:46 PM15 repliesview on HN

One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated. EU will pass laws, countries will adopt those laws, but you end up with 20-24 different versions of those laws. With some countries being strict or lenient about the law that everyone agreed to. And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part. Modern technology makes it feasible, but old ideas just drags it down.


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bambaxtoday at 2:46 PM

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees.

For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language.

I went to the trouble of registering in 6 different countries; in some countries, Amazon more or less helps sellers submit reports; in others, they offer to partner with local lawyers.

The result is a mess of reports, injunctions, penalties for late filing, etc. coming to you in Polish, German, Spanish, Hungarian. I eventually gave up.

Europe is not actually a "single market". It's a federated bureaucracy entirely indifferent (or hostile) to small businesses.

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labcomputertoday at 3:33 PM

> And a lot it is written from the perspective that large corporations are the only ones who do business throughout the EU. It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part.

I'm not convinced that's an accident. I think politicians in Europe are just better than those in the US at hiding who they really work for.

There are numerous examples of regulations in many European countries that create a glass ceiling for anyone who strives to be more than just middle-middle-class, while creating effective loopholes for the wealthy to continue multiplying their wealth.

For example, the total (State + Federal) top tax rate for someone living in California or New York is not too different (maybe 2-3%) from someone living in France or Sweden. But the difference is that in California the top rate does not kick in until you earn north of $1M per year, while in Sweden or France the middle class is already paying those rates.

Likewise, in the US you cannot (legally) shelter your income by declaring it to be foreign income, as you can in most European countries. That is a tax dodge not applicable to the middle class.

And then we have the present discussion: The compliance costs are of course too high for any small business, so these regulations are just another form of regulatory capture to prevent anyone new from breaking into the upper class, while allowing those already there to have it easy.

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Helmut10001today at 1:58 PM

Living in Europe, I find that with LLMs, it is possible to navigate the federal & law jungle. However, LLMs don't protect you from institutional envy or the resistance of people trying to block progress simply because it is perceived as 'too modern' or disruptive. I find this the hardest challenge. And I have the feeling during times of general decline, like these, it gets worse.

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jabarttoday at 3:37 PM

US Sales tax is the exact same way. Each state has a different rate, Texas has multiple rates inside a zip code you have to manage. Each state also has a nexus requirement that is either money, or number of transactions based. Then the filings you have to do and have a Foreign LLC registration, a registered agent in that state, and a yearly annual report to file to tell them you are still in business and here is my $40-200.

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greenraventoday at 2:05 PM

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part

This is by design. It’s the same all over the world. The wealthy are not going to just let you compete

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silon42today at 1:55 PM

Even medium-sized corporations are not willing to send products across borders to consumers (say, outside Germany), further destroying the single market.

Xelbairtoday at 2:06 PM

>One of the biggest problems that I have in the EU is that it's almost federated

I would argue it's even worse, because with properly designed federated system you get checks and balances to some extent.

There are parts of EU that have almost zero oversight.

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chermitoday at 2:24 PM

I think this is a big factor. While I would prefer a more federated US, the US as is is a great market to start in. It's 350M fairly wealthy people under mostly the same tech restrictions. That's a great place to grow.

It's important to remember that even without the fact that big companies basically write the regulations, regulations naturally tend to being effectively regressive wrt company stage/size. Every new one is a hurdle that a bigger company has more resources to overcome.

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PinguTStoday at 3:27 PM

In the EU you have to distinguish between "Directives" and "Regulations".

A "Regulation" becomes "law" in any member state without modification. No member state has to adopt anything. Examples are the GDPR and the new Machine Regulation.

A "Directive" does not become "law" in any member state. A member state has to enact their own national laws to implement the directive until a given date. It does not have to be single law. It could spread many laws. An example is the Machine Directive before it was re-released as Machine Regulation.

More on the different types can be found here from the EU itself: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/types-eu...

pjc50today at 2:46 PM

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part

This was traditionally something that the UK was better than the rest of Europe, having carve-outs for small businesses.

alephnerdtoday at 1:57 PM

The bigger issue in OP's case is they are dependent on de minimis.

The de minimis crackdown [0] and EPR [1] are both being rolled out because Chinese conglomerates like Pinduoduo (Temu) and SHEIN took undue advantage of that while ignoring European regulators on issues such as environmental regulations on packaging [2], dark patterns [2], breaching the Digital Services Act [3], and gacha/addictive engagement mechanisms [4].

All of OP's proposals directly conflict with the goal of de minimis taxation and the EPR.

Seems European HNers are fine with European regulations until it hurts their niche interests or pocketbook.

[0] - https://www.ft.com/content/102e18d7-d06b-4405-a347-97bb3c373...

[1] - https://www.vereev.com/news/europe-faces-trade-conflict-is-e...

[2] - https://www.ft.com/content/ef72f186-2a02-4c51-927d-2c01ddece...

[3] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/eu-says-temu-breach-r...

[4] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/eu-probes-shein-over-...

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cloudie78today at 2:41 PM

Ah yes, let’s give the EU and its undemocratic system in which policy formation is heavily filtered through a relatively narrow professional political class, ordinary voters have weak or almost no direct control over major policy choices, dissent encounters administrative/economic punishment, and central institutions possess and use powerful financial means to discipline peripheral governments should have even more centralised power?

And no, just because voting for MEPs is bolted on there as a pressure valve doesn’t suddenly make it all okay when most of the real decisions happen behind closed doors and adherence to the passed laws, no matter how damaging is ensured through financial coercion.

Not a single person voted or agreed to this law, and yet here we are.

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tjwebbnorfolktoday at 2:36 PM

> old ideas just drags it down.

Are these old ideas? The broad regulatory apparatus in the EU appears very modern and intentional.

n4r9today at 2:25 PM

> It's completely missed that small entrepreneurs may also want to take part

There's truth to this but it's an overstatement as it stands. For example, GDPR rules are less strict for small companies.

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troupotoday at 2:02 PM

Because if the EU tried to force countries into single compliance, there would no end of "EU is trampling national interests" and similar screaming.

It's an unwinnable situation. Again, EU-level politics keep assuming everyone (corporations and states) are adults. Unfortunately, everyone are just a bunch of screaming, scheming petulant children.

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