logoalt Hacker News

kuranteyesterday at 10:45 PM5 repliesview on HN

Is the broken English an optimization or a byproduct of the model being developed in China?


Replies

acheong08yesterday at 10:49 PM

When GPT-5.6-sol's reasoning traces were leaked, they also used "caveman speak". Definitely a token efficiency optimization

show 1 reply
minimaxiryesterday at 10:48 PM

Optimization. Why use many word when few word do trick?

show 3 replies
walrus01today at 12:31 AM

qwen3.8-flash-next also 'thinks' like this in its thinking stage before output, watching it 'think' in opencode, but it produces syntax correct and grammatically correct code comments, changelogs and readme type files.

ekianjoyesterday at 11:02 PM

Saving tokens

show 1 reply
AdamConwayIEtoday at 1:56 AM

Likely something that was first made especially obvious by Chinese models and then became something worth optimizing for in English too.

Chinese can be extremely information-dense in token terms, though it depends on the tokenizer. Roughly speaking, you can pack more "meaning" into a short sequence than English often allows for. That's why "caveman" reasoning is a pretty good fit.

There's a difference between bolting caveman speak onto an existing model and training a model to reason that way, though. If you just force an existing model to be concise in outputs, you're artificially reducing its available reasoning steps and can possibly prevent useful exploration or verification. If it's trained specifically to use compressed reasoning, it can learn to represent the same intermediate ideas in fewer generated tokens, cutting the number of sequential inference steps without necessarily sacrificing the useful reasoning itself.

It's not so much inherently a Chinese-model trait, but Chinese models could definitely have helped demonstrate how effective very compressed reasoning traces can be.

There are few tests of this, but one example I thought was interesting was here: https://github.com/PastaPastaPasta/llm-chinese-english

I wouldn't say it was Chinese specifically that was emulated, but it got people thinking about tokenizers and representation efficiency, and how natural English is rather inefficient.