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embedding-shapeyesterday at 9:21 AM14 repliesview on HN

How many apprentices did this guy managed to put through the pipeline before his career was over? It always shocks me how low this number tends to be for highly skilled craftsmen. They spend their century maintaining/creating some of the best work on the planet but when they disappear, unenumerable amount of knowledge, tips and experience silently disappears as quickly as it was gained, and it's sad to observe every single time.


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analog31yesterday at 2:57 PM

I work in a mid sized engineering organization, and the older engineers (and engineer-adjacent people like me) mentor the younger ones all the time.

One thing that can't be codified in procedures is what I call "situational awareness" for lack of a better term. I don't think you can learn how to work in a machine shop safely from a book. Or recognize when a complex design is heading towards being unworkable. In my organization, the older engineers have a sixth sense for projects that are going to be cancelled.

There's a reason why older drivers (up to a point of course) pay less for car insurance, yet the rules are the same for all of us.

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rhplusyesterday at 12:01 PM

> unenumerable amount of knowledge, tips and experience silently disappears

Not to be negative about experts here, but of all industries, isn’t airline maintenance one of the most documented and standard procedure focused of them all? I would hope that someone maintaining a 777 doesn’t have to remember certain tricks or tips outside of what the manuals say, and when mistakes are found, they’d be noted, investigated and republished to all maintenance crews worldwide.

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bob1029yesterday at 9:38 AM

It's sad but at the same time there is a sort of optimization that tends to occur each time the magic trick is rediscovered.

Often it is not possible to separate the technique from the man. Things like riding a bike or flying a helicopter come to mind. A lot of what makes a master good cannot be written down anywhere. There isn't anything tangible to actually lose.

How would you write a document that describes to someone how to ride a bike or dig holes efficiently? You could explain the principles and general ideas, but the apprentice is going to need to get scraped up a bit before they actually learn anything that matters. The apprentice willing to suffer repeated failure is where most of the heavy lifting occurs. The master is mostly a backstop to keep the apprentice alive.

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2legit2quityesterday at 10:43 AM

> It always shocks me how low this number tends to be for highly skilled craftsmen.

Generally speaking (only a Sith deals in absolutes), engineers want to engineer.

There is no incentive for management to nudge the best performing engineers to teach their expertise in their craft[s]. A high-performing engineer "reflects good" on a manger. The way incentives are generally structured, this becomes a problem that perpetuates itself: Everyone in the management pipeline gets more money for the high performing engineer to keep engineering, rather than to teach.

ameliusyesterday at 3:43 PM

A 10x engineer can be turned into a 1x engineer when given enough apprentices. However, those apprentices can become 2x, 3x engineers. Ok, there must be some optimum.

simonsarrisyesterday at 11:49 AM

Yes, this seems to happen a lot in small companies. It seems less inevitable in big ones but it still happens. You would think at a minimum AA would want to hire a journalist or similar simply to shadow him for a year, get him to dictate everything (so that he has to do as little extra effort as possible), and publish a sort-of manual from the accumulated wisdom.

The point of hiring someone specifically to do this is that he might simply want to keep on working, uninterrupted by apprentices or other demands, so the recorder must be a second person dedicated to knowledge maintenance.

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Blackthornyesterday at 12:59 PM

Some people do a lot as least. Forrest Addy has a massive library of posts that are still the top results on Google for just about any machining problem imaginable.

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darknaviyesterday at 1:53 PM

I didn't see any details in the article other than this quote, which seems promising.

> He’s the guy who sits with the new kids at lunch and passes it on.

dimitrios1yesterday at 1:28 PM

Be the change you wish to see in the world!

Hopefully you are apprenticing many junior engineers!

applfanboysbgonyesterday at 9:57 AM

This is one of the saddest aspects of our societies being optimized for maximum short-term gains. In the past, master craftsman would own their own shop and pass it down to their apprentices, leaving a tradition and legacy that could last hundreds of years. This dynamic is becoming increasingly rare.

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quickthrowmanyesterday at 1:19 PM

> They spend their century maintaining/creating some of the best work on the planet but when they disappear, unenumerable amount of knowledge, tips and experience silently disappears as quickly as it was gained, and it's sad to observe every single time.

Every single possible airplane maintenance operation is detailed on task cards that mechanics follow. Probably there is some small amount of tribal knowledge, but virtually everything is documented with step-by-step procedures, which includes the tools you need, every step, all torque values, etc.

It’s not like being an electrician or pipefitter where you have to make your pipe or conduit get from point A to point B by following the construction code, airplane safety is crucial enough that documenting and standardizing airplane maintenance was done long ago.

roosterIllusi0nyesterday at 3:57 PM

We let CEOs earn unlimited money. They cut all the training to be personally richer.

Vote republicans out so we can restore the 1950s tax rates and financial regs that prevented CEOs fron cutting wages and outsourcing to make themselves personally richer. CEOs pay nothing for their stock, it is given them for free. Then they take tax free loans on the stock and that allows them to bubble the stock price for tax free loan money. CEOs self enrich off of a cycle of bubbles and pops.

Mawryesterday at 3:41 PM

If only there was a way to directly share those understandings with others, through genetic material or something...

logsemanyesterday at 9:37 AM

Their status and whatever wage they commanded depended on training as few apprentices as possible.

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