> that Graphene seems to want to complain about everything and anything that doesn't fit their niche use case

What would you want them to complain about instead? Of course they'll complain about that, just like Googlers will complain about things affecting their stock price, no one is surprised that people care about stuff they're personally involved in, it makes a lot of sense.

Now if these complaints weren't accurate, then I'd walk with you and feel a bit more negative with each piece. But the ones I've looked into, have been spot on, so who cares if it's for their specific niche? I expect them to care about their niche, that's why those people all work together in that organization in the first place.

> As much as it seems beloved here, people that flash custom Android OSs are the very definition of niche users.

Hmm... Let's try reframing this: "as much as it seems beloved here, people that install their own operating systems on PCs are the very definition of niche users"

I'm absolutely certain that's how IBM felt before the clones. But the ability to install what they wanted on a defacto standard platform is what launched the computing revolution. I think we'd still be living in a sterile monopolistic environment with $10k compilers otherwise.

Folks installing their own ROMs on phones are only niche because they've been pushed out at every opportunity using locked bootloaders, embedded security processors, factory installed secret keys, etc.

Despite all that, there's still thriving communities developing and using custom ROMs on their phones. That demonstrates more than niche demand.

Perhaps they complain because that's literally the only way to get Google to take notice?

Let's be real, AOSP doesn't exist any more. Google have closed down nearly everything. All the development happens in private, you've stopped addressing bugs raised by the public, the source of patches are only infrequently released, device trees are gone.

Wouldn't you complain?

If they're just some "niche use case" then why would Motorola partner with them? The way they see it,

> By combining GrapheneOS’s pioneering engineering with Motorola’s decades of security expertise, real‑world user insights, and Lenovo’s ThinkShield solutions, the collaboration will advance a new generation of privacy and security technologies. In the coming months, Motorola and the GrapheneOS Foundation will continue to collaborate on joint research, software enhancements, and new security capabilities, with more details and solutions to roll out as the partnership evolves.

https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...

Even in the EU spyware use is prevalent (and i 'd guess everywhere else in the world). There have been many scandals of government authorized commercial spyware been deployed against journalists. Is it really that niche a mobile OS that tries to not be exploitable by them?

You might not like their style of speech, at least they care about their users. Maybe Google uses nice flowery language that makes the reader feel nice—IDC—actions speak louder than words.

Stock Pixel is an awful experience. So many useless notifications, popups, ads, privacy not by default.

Company: "We care about your privacy" meanwhile 1400 corporations they share data with

GrapheneOS: "There's zero telemetry in GrapheneOS"

The more you read the more you realize they are nearly always correct.

So other projects are not supposed to critize Google? Graphene's focus is on security and they complain about lack of security in your products. Seems valid to me.

Also security and using non-Google OS are not niche usecases. I'm not sure how you are working on Android, the most popular OS while claiming security is a niche usecase. In fact, I have less confidence in security of your work.

When you are a minority you have to be incredibly loud for any chance to sway things your way.

Not saying whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, but just the nature of reality.

Could you please explain why supporting MTE/potentially EMTE in production as a goal represents a niche use case? Isn't mitigating memory corruption issues a mainstream ideal? How else would you propose to do it?

This doesn't read as a rant to me, but as calm and factual, regarding a genuine security regression that merits public attention. What is your interest in mischaracterizing it?

Thankfully the project doesn't care about your personal attitude. That "niche use case" literally saves lives in countries where saying the wrong thing can put you to death. Since when is calling something out a rant?

Daniel Micay who's (most likely) running the project again has a history of being paranoid and coming up with perceived attacks from people on the internet. The loudest one by far was the story with Louis Rossmann. I've been following Micay for close to a decade. This is the exact pattern that he operates on. Tons and tons of drama for no reason.

I truly, sincerely hope that I'm wrong, and that he isn't actually at the helm, because then Motorola are under serious thread of getting an essay saying how they're a terrible company sending assasins to his house, after they disagree on some little thing.

> people that flash custom Android OSs are the very definition of niche users.

This is a mischaracterization. The niche isn't Android hobbyists, it's people with what should be a basic expectation for privacy. I wouldn't flash GOS or any other OS if I could safely avoid it.

Maybe if Google did not shove their spyware down people's throats and actually allowed users control of their phones, there wouldn't be a need for projects like Graphene and Lineage. Until then, complaints are more than justified.

> I doubt I'd go far out of my way to help them, even if I had exposure to them.

Too busy crippling sideloading I guess

They are good enough to have their own Cellebrite column. If they complain about something, you should probably listen.

> My personal attitude to Graphene seems to get a bit more negative with each one of these "rants" and I doubt I'd go far out of my way to help them, even if I had exposure to them.

My thoughts entirely, I prefer to use CalyxOS, which for some reason in the eyes of GrapheneOS is pure evil.

Security shouldn’t be a niche use case. There’s a constant trickle of CVEs, and spyware vendors are known to abuse these exploits in their software. All this on devices that are reachable in the US through a text or MMS, sent to an easily located 10 digit number that isn’t easily changed. These are devices that people now use for all kinds of sensitive tasks!

Security should be the number one priority, frankly. Graphene has shown that this is possible, and they have tried multiple times to get Google to integrate their work.

... and my opinion becomes more positive with each rant. We'll have to agree to disagree. The only reason I buy Pixels for myself and my family members is because of GrapheneOS, otherwise it would be used out of date hardware for LineageOS or some kind of Linux phone. I am thankful that they are attempting to diversify with Motorola, being entirely Pixel dependent has been a project vulnerability; anytime Google decided to lock down the boot loader, it would have been curtains for the project.

I'm not an AOSP engineer, but that was my thought reading GOS's comments: Why be negative toward the people who you want help from? They don't need more stress in their day and wouldn't want to engage, with the promise of enjoying more of the same treatment. If it's consolation, much of their communication seems the same - it has nothing to do with AOSP or Google. :)

Communication is a challenging skill and not all good engineers are good at it. It's stressful to be in a role that demands lots communication if you feel you aren't good at it (I'm not speaking for GOS leaders - I don't know what they think).

Going out on a limb, hoping it helps - the most powerful single solution IME is compassion: Compassion toward yourself and toward others. They are engineers like you, trying to get through a stressful day like you, and they could use some pleasant interaction from someone who understands what it's like. You could use some of that too. Running GOS isn't easy, I'm sure.

"I don't know anything but I don't like Graphene"

Well we know Google isn't enabling MTE, while LLM-enabled exploits are multiplying rapidly. Maybe you need to get back to work?