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ben_wyesterday at 1:44 PM1 replyview on HN

> Each training would be a separate infringement.

False. Training was found to be a legitimate use. The liability was specifically, solely, for copyright infringement specifically due to getting the works in the first place, not training on those works.

> And it could be argued that each use by a user of the model could be considered a separate infringement.

No, it could not.

If this standard was applied to copyright infringement on BitTorrent, someone who helped share one file to 100 other users would get hit with 100 copyright infringement instances, not one.

> Generally copyright fines are increased if the persons doing the infringing action know what they are doing. Aka, ‘willful infringement.’ It’s hard to imagine companies like OpenAI were unaware of the possibility of their actions being considered infringement.

That's already accounted for when I said this was in the normal range for liability per copyright violation.

> Often restitution of infringement includes money made by the infringer. So not simply, “your book is worth $3000.” But rather? “Your book is worth $3000 AND this company has derived an additional $50,000 of revenue from it.”

Depends on the details; however, as previously noted, the judge *explicitly noted* that training was not itself an offence, only the piracy to get the training data was. Any revenue derived from the offence had to be shown to be in the period between the offence and when they bought the same works, because they were found to be allowed to use those works in this manner.


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tikimcfeeyesterday at 1:53 PM

Ok. For the people in the back:

If doing the bad thing is just a fine for one person and a life altering consequence for someone else, it is not a fair and equally distributed form of justice and is a gameable function needing to be fixed.

The caps don't help, and I don't care, unfortunately.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. That it's fine they paid a billion dollars? So if they do it again, it's another billion? Oh well, guess I'm just not allowed to pirate things until I'm super wealthy. Or is it maybe the justice is being played out like it's supposed to? Oh, well, guess I better hope the system of governance that's being actively manipulated by the people that are breaking the same rules I am bound to suddenly and miraculously changes.

Like, I don't even detect a mote of "what they did is not ok."

Maybe you do think that and it's closer to you just trying to be careful about the letter of the law and you would also see to the justice system being fixed. I'd like that.

But you spending any time in your life to make this argument at all in their case is just goofy.

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