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stackghostyesterday at 9:17 PM7 repliesview on HN

Suffers from the same problem that all music theory texts seem unable to avoid: they require the reader to simply accept a bunch of random facts to memorize with no context.

Example: memorize the major scale as a series of whole and half steps but we won’t provide you with any context or motivation for why this is so.

Similar: in a major scale all notes are played and none are skipped or repeated. Except if your scale goes D–E–F#–G, in which case you skip F. The only way for this to be correct is apparently we consider F and F# to be the same note for purposes of scales even though this directly contradicts a previous section.

I was expecting a “21st century” music theory reference to have an emphasis on building intuition. Music theorists are apparently allergic to good pedagogy.


Replies

Al-Khwarizmitoday at 9:27 AM

Yes, this is what has always blocked me from learning even basic music theory.

I get that maybe it's just the way it is, perhaps the underlying logic is so complex that it would be counterproductive to present it up front. I'm not saying that the theory should adapt to my pet peeves. But I'm very prone to learn things by understanding first principles and building from there. Having to memorize scales where suddenly you need to skip keys or use black keys without much apparent logic is a real deterrent for me considering it's something I learn as a hobby.

This is also the reason why I like algebra, calculus, etc. but dislike statistics... in algebra or calculus you start from first principles and work up from there understanding everything. In statistics (at least the way I was taught) you are shown the formula for the probability density of the Gaussian distribution and need to accept it as an act of faith.

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ChadNauseamyesterday at 11:59 PM

> Example: memorize the major scale as a series of whole and half steps but we won’t provide you with any context or motivation for why this is so.

I recommend "What Makes Music Sound Good?" by Prof. Dmitri Tymoczko: https://dmitri.mycpanel.princeton.edu/files/pdfs/MUS105hando...

There is a part near the beginning where he derives the diatonic scale from first principles. (There is a sequel as well, and a book if you prefer to read it in book form)

strenholmeyesterday at 9:47 PM

We recently had a long discussion about this. I come from the “music theory makes a lot more sense once one understands that 2:1, 3:2, 4:3 sound really whole and good to the human ear, 5:4 has a little more tension, and 6:5 has even more tension” school of thought [1] but for other people it is a distraction from understanding basic stuff like “this is a minor scale”. See here for the long discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49541888

[1] I understand ancient scales were 3-limit instead of 5-limit scales, and that modern equal temperament has thirds which significantly deviate from 5:4 and 6:5, but once polyphony became a thing, 5-limit temperament made a lot more sense because they reduce beating.

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acjohnson55today at 1:10 AM

You might enjoy this unfinished project of mine: https://fakestory.acjay.com/

It's the culmination of years spent chasing an explanation of where all this stuff came from.

Highly informed by Tymoczko, who was mentioned in a sibling reply, and a bunch of other thinkers on the topic.

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onlyrealcuzzotoday at 3:41 AM

Yes, I was hoping for something different, but as best I can tell this is a slight rehash on more of the same.

Ableton's teachings are far more interesting in my opinion, even if extremely more limited.

scottiousyesterday at 9:31 PM

A better way to think about it is that all letters in the musical alphabet are represented in a musical scale. Some are sharp or flat

D major: D E F♯ G A B C♯

D minor: D E F G A B♭ C

Db major: D♭ E♭ F G♭ A♭ B♭ C

Db minor: D♭ E♭ F♭ G♭ A♭ B♭♭ C♭

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