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alt227yesterday at 6:39 PM5 repliesview on HN

Right now governments in western societies are pouring more money and resources than ever into support programs, and yet we still have record high levels of mental health, unemployment, poverty, waiting times for doctors and support staff etc etc.

Government intervention and welfare is proven not to solve the things it tries to.

See here for much information about how spending has increased in these sectors in the UK, yet simultaneously seeing increasingly higher percentage levels of people requiring support in our societies.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...

Where do you think this trend will end? Do you think governments spending more tax money on these services will solve the problem?


Replies

siddthesquidyesterday at 7:23 PM

So I'll tell you right now that I don't have proof or evidence for my claims, but my impression is that:

- Agreed that the solution will not be just blindly pouring more money into community resources. But I am not convinced that these organizations getting money really understand how to help people. It's sort of like the D.A.R.E. program in college. These people are so out of touch with what college students will listen to. But I'm sure donors of these programs will pat themselves on their back when they reiterate their mission statements.

- There is probably some correlation between bad parenting and income. If you need to work more to pay the bills, its difficult to spend your time and attention toward your kids. Obviously, "economy" is not an easy problem to solve haha.

- Information asymmetry/overload I feel is a big issue. Look at how any mainstream news media on the left or right will trivialize any issue, or distract you from more important things. Or look at websites relying on dark patterns to lure users.

- So many solutions require longer time periods to fully realize. If we say "improving education will help solve our problems", then we will probably need to wait longer than a US president's two terms to see if those solutions works.

Ultimately, we don't need "more" solutions, we need "better" solutions. We need things like leaders who understand system dynamics, education systems that teach emotional intelligence, and a culture around science that isn't driven by monetary incentives.

I am personally very inspired by Sanya Nishtar's efforts in Pakistan to spend her time and money investigating how focusing on solutions at the scale of individual communities and utilizing modern technological solutions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCBkavI3jxY

feorenyesterday at 8:55 PM

Really trying to assume good faith here, but it's hard ...

We have record high levels of people needing support at the same time we have record high levels of spending on that support? What an outrage! Obviously nothing is working and government bad!

Of course the spending on support services goes up as more people need that support. We're supposed to assume that's some sort of failure?

> Government intervention and welfare is proven not to solve the things it tries to.

If by "proven" you mean "kinda maybe arguable if you intentionally misrepresent correlational studies", sure.

wakamoleguyyesterday at 6:58 PM

These statistics don't necessarily imply that the programs don't improve the situation, only that mental health outcomes are worsening faster than programs are improving them. The existence of support programs could also encourage more measurement of mental health issues, which says nothing about the ground truth.

notrealyme123yesterday at 6:55 PM

This data does not support the argument made here.

crtifiedyesterday at 7:12 PM

It's a complex fantasy humanity has made up, where our current generational burnout is instead given names like autism and ADHD - so that we can pretend that we have something to "fix".

The irony is that the goal of the fix is to "get these outliers back into society, (so that humanity can be as collectively productive as we should be)".

Even more ironic are the next cries : "They're not getting fixed. Take away their money."