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hbnyesterday at 10:50 PM18 repliesview on HN

A funny quirk of English I never noticed until I started learning Spanish:

In Spanish, to say for example, "he is a doctor," you would say "él es médico." Which more literally translates to "he is doctor," which feels unintuitive coming from English. Spanish DOES have an equivalent for "a" - "un/una", so the natural thing for an English speaker to say would be "él es UN médico", but I understand that to be awkward/unnatural.

But then I realized, when you say the same sentence in plural - "they are doctors" - you don't have an article. You don't say "they are some doctors" (I had to Google, apparently "some" isn't an article anyway?)

So Spanish ends up more consistent - Singular: "Él es médico." Plural: "Ellos son medicos."

Unlike English - Singular: "He is a doctor." Plural: "They are doctors."


Replies

soyyotoday at 8:06 AM

In spanish you also have to use a/an:

Es un perro (its a dog)

Saying "es perro" makes no sense.

The problem is that you are mixing two different constructs, if you are refering to the whole thing you have to say un/una, if you are describing a property of something you don't use it.

Es un perro, es macho. (It's a dog, is male)

If you are talking about doctor being a property of someone,like his profession, you say "es médico" but if you are refering to the doctor as an entity and not a property of someone you have to use "a":

Es un médico muy famoso (He is a very famous doctor). "Es médico muy famoso" again makes no sense.

bradrnyesterday at 11:12 PM

It’s simply that, in English, there is no indefinite plural article — or, equivalently, that the indefinite plural article is null. So ‘they are doctors’ is consistent with the behaviour of plural nouns elsewhere.

Contrast this with, for example, French, where the indefinite singular un(e) correspond to the indefinite plural des: La boulangerie vend des baguettes ‘the bakery sells baguettes’ (whereas English cannot say *‘a baguettes’). But as in Spanish, professions take no article either way: Il est médecin / Ils sont médecins. So all three languages are self-consistent, just in their own ways.

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thinkingemotetoday at 7:58 AM

English would work for titles:

He is President.

He is Doctor. (Dr.)

"He is president" is different than "he is a president" (one among many) or "he is the president" (the one specific).

But it would have to be within the context of titles

With the specific case, the "the" could be dropped - "who is in running this rpg?" points "he is gamesmaster" which means "he is the gamesmaster".

Probably because it's a role, similar to the title?

mdp2021today at 6:35 AM

You should not look at superficial similarities between languages, but at logic.

To the question: "What is he?", the answer can be "He is married, tall, doctor in medicine".

On another point of view, "He is a doctor" = "one in the set of the doctors". (But which one of the crowd there? The tall one is the doctor.)

"He is doctor in medicine": identity; "He is a doctor": aside property.

With different expressions, you are not expressing the same thing, but different ideas (some of them more preponderant in use in a territory).

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thaynetoday at 12:22 AM

Interstingly it is the same in german, you would say "Er ist Arzt" not "Er ist ein Arzt". Which makes me wonder why english uses an indefinite article there, since it doesn't seem to be either germanic or romantic in origin.

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zelphirkalttoday at 8:06 AM

And actually, it is not so common to write the actual personal pronouns in Spanish, as they become more or less clear seeing the verb ending, due to conjugation of the verb. So one would probably say "Es médico.", when in context.

lozfyesterday at 11:49 PM

Certainly English can be odd. It can usually be understood through tough thorough thought though.

tzstoday at 1:31 AM

You are right most of the time for English, but today that should be "Arrr! He be the sawbones".

Spain had pirates too, but I don't speak Spanish so had to ask an LLM. It suggested that today in Spanish it would be "Él es el matasanos del barco". Any authentic Spanish pirates who can verify or correct that?

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d-us-vbtoday at 6:32 AM

There’s an ongoing debate about whether articles are a proper part of speech; the only articles in English are the and a. Some grammarians prefer “determiner”, which includes a, the, some, other, no (as in “no man”) etc. A determiner is just a word that selects/determines an element of a larger assumed universe of discourse.

Some grammarians deny the existence of determiners, as they are not found in traditional grammars of the language, with the words now considered determiners placed in other parts of speech.

asveikauyesterday at 11:02 PM

The further back you go in Indo-European languages, they don't have articles. It's a relatively recent innovation.

So for example latin didn't have them. Eventually they evolved from ille and unus.

Much of Eastern Europe still does not have articles.

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emmelaichtoday at 2:04 AM

You can say "they are the doctors" -- but yeah it's a slightly different meaning.

BTW in German, it's a fun distinction. The old "ich bin (ein) Berliner". (or hamburger or frankfurter...)

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cvhcyesterday at 11:09 PM

There is no plural equivalent of a/an. So where you would use a/an becomes no-article for plural nouns.

al_borlandyesterday at 11:06 PM

I suppose you could say, “they are both doctors” or “they are all doctors.”

Those sound fine to me, depending on context.

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totetsutoday at 6:21 AM

> Singular: "He is a doctor." Plural: "They are doctors."

Here the 'a' is shifting position to become the world final 's'

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pigpagyesterday at 11:52 PM

Over-learning Portuguese (as a beginner) almost make me feel that "He is a doctor" should become "They are as doctors".

Xmd5atoday at 8:28 AM

il est docteur

vs

c'est un docteur

nutjob2yesterday at 11:21 PM

In "They are doctors" the 'they' is the subject and you don't need articles. 'They' is plural.

But in "The doctors are female" you do because the subject is some specific group of doctors. It's singular because its a single group of things.

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Onavoyesterday at 11:16 PM

Is French different? Il est un médecin? Il est médecin? Ils sont médecins sounds fine.

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