alt Hacker NewsAs an SRE I would be very interested on experienced devs point of view on that stance, "we don’t even necessarily need to read the code the LLMs produce". To me, that is the only way a single dev can manage > 1 agent. Because I feel running the code will always be slower than a single agent generating it. On the other hand, it implies lack of human understanding on what is going on under the hood. Which is fine if you trust the LLM to write great code, and great tests for the code, but fundamentally you have to have 100% trust, 99.9% is not going to be enough in any serious industry, would it ?
Also eventually you'll also have to trust it to write the deployment code or even run the deployment itself, otherwise SRE is going to be the bottleneck. And only then should I feel anxiety about the rest of my career (that, or my employer decide LLM are good enough to get rid of me, even if they are imperfect).
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Not trying to be a jerk but at this point SRE is my main use case for heavy LLM stuff. It's pretty awesome at that. Deployments and CI pipelines have become a breeze. I used to have to ask DevOps for that and wait days. I have even let agents run deployments for side projects and they seem to do better work than most humans I've worked with. It's wild they will actually read all the logs and debug problems so fast. Not something we could ever keep up with.
The actual code and architecture is where it still lacking IMHO. Especially in rails... Like it will just build the least scalable features if you let it do it's thing. Ten queries for what could be one. No separation of concerns. Huge files, lots of duplicated code and then tens of thousands of units tests that just grow like a fatberg.
If your app does anything serious, if you have serious traffic... you are going to need to review each session finely (and your DB schema with each deploy). It could be that this is maybe an indictment of rails more than LLMs, I guess maybe time will tell.
> Which is fine if you trust the LLM to write great code, and great tests for the code, but fundamentally you have to have 100% trust, 99.9% is not going to be enough in any serious industry, would it ?
This is lacking a lot of nuance. There are many types of code. There are many situations where I'm analysing something one-off and if I get 33% success ratio, but can easily verify the result, I'm happy - still saved me time and money. They're are situations where I'm generating graphs from some dataset and I don't have to trust anything - I know what the result should look like, I just need the agent to drive matplotlib. There are low stakes dashboards which I'm happy to generate and develop entirely via agents - they'll embed the updated screenshots in PRs that I can yolo-merge - worst case is that someone complains about something not working next time they visit. Then there's lots of experimenting which was never stopped to hit production anyway.
Finally after all of that you get code that's actually part of deployable features. Of course the trust is nowhere near 100%, but if you have a healthy testing process (e2e, validating different browsers, or whatever is appropriate for your environment), then what's your trust in human developer+review? Because mine is nowhere near 100% either.
In practice there are places where I extremely don't care about the code and never wanted it anyway, places where I'll read the code to check the design or just in case, and places which agents are not allowed to touch (medical billing rules for example).
20+ years of software experience.
Coding part of the job (as in „typing with my bare hands“) is gone. Now I get to spend more time making product decisions, capturing constraints and executable specs. Resulting code is boring, consistent and gets the job done.
> Because I feel running the code will always be slower than a single agent generating it.
That is very not true for many cases. Agents generating code are usually painfully slow, finding workflows that replace that reasoning with running code usually speed things up in my experience.
Do you have 100% trust in all devs you work with?
Most code just has to be good enough.
I don't read the code my LLM produces unless I am investigating the code. I actually don't know Kotlin, or React.
My version of "code review" is "test failure investigation" and I have a hard rule in my repos that agents never modify existing tests while they're implementing features. This means that when I run the tests after they do a bunch of stuff, I see all the tests break. Mostly they're stale assertions and we patch them up. Sometimes they're regressions and we patch those up, and sometimes I notice something dumb and dive deep into a facet of the architecture that can be improved, spend some time exploring it then get the agent to implement.
I think it's a better approach than trying to read everything and catch bugs or improve quality because you wind up focusing the things that actually matter in the real world rather than the things you think might matter.
This is how I've always approached working with offshore devs too. Focus on testing for quality control, not "code quality". After all, you're going to look at the code you wrote 5 years ago and think it's shit anyway right? So all your code is shit.
Regarding "lack of understanding", here's a recent anecdote: I had a bug in a production (but relatively new) system. The customer was texting me saying that they couldn't scan a QR code because it kept "skipping and glitching". They sent me a short video. I described the problem to the agent and it figured out WAY faster than I would have been able to that the customer's clock was set incorrectly. They turned on network time and bingo bango, the thing worked straight away.
I don't thing "comprehension debt" matters at all, because if you want to know something about the code you ask the agent. I can't remember how anything works after 12 months anyway, so I would frequently have to spend ages grepping my own code when a customer came back and asked me to change something in a system we hadn't touched since last year. Asking an agent the same thing takes minutes and is way more accurate (and fun!)
We are many of us now engaged in a big experiment to see just how little you can read the code, and for how long. Considering the consensus is that we have still not yet passed the 1 year anniversary of agents getting good, it feels too early to say how it will play out. But there are a lot of market forces working to make it happen.