logoalt Hacker News

Bayart • yesterday at 8:21 AM • 2 replies • view on HN

That's handwaving the mass-suffering caused by systemic collapse. I have a few issues with this. The first one is dialectic, you can't posit that since the following state reached a place you're fine with later on, the process that led to it was necessary. That's thinking backwards. You don't know that it wouldn't have reached a better or equal state without collapse.

The following ones are ethical and philosophical. My own standing is that :

- Individuals can't be treated as fungible or dispensable, even when thinking in macro states. That opens the door for extreme suffering and simplistic thinking.

- On longer scales, stability wins. Collapse should be treated as a hard failure, not a mechanic.


Replies

cucumber3732842 • yesterday at 1:26 PM

>mass-suffering caused by systemic collapse

As opposed to slow burn suffering caused by living under a poor exploitative system? Say nothing of the opportunity cost...

It's not like bronze age societies had invented peaceful power transitions between fundamentally opposed factions. Whatever state they were stuck in they were there until a regime change, if you're lucky that'll only kill a few people at the top. But most societies aren't that lucky.

>- On longer scales, stability wins. Collapse should be treated as a hard failure, not a mechanic.

Japan was stable for a hell of a long time. Not hard to imagine had they been located somewhere slightly different in the world they'd have wound up slaves to some random European power. Stability works until you get into a local maximum you can't get out of A lot of those local maximums you are not getting out of except over the dead bodies of whoever benefits from them (see also: US civil war), if you're lucky. If you're unlucky you get subjugated by someone else.

tliltocatl • yesterday at 12:43 PM

> stability wins

Stability sucks. Instability sucks even more when you are in the middle of it, but it is transient. Stability is forever, until it suddenly isn't.

➕ show 3 replies