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FridayoLeary • today at 1:16 AM • 3 replies • view on HN

Yes. Your argument is fallacious because it's classic whataboutism. Just because the US have done some morally questionable things doesn't mean they are not committed to humanism in general and by comparison to all the other countries I've mentioned, they are so much better. And their trajectory over time is one of continued improvement.

As for your charges against Israel, they are factually incorrect. Israel is not still massacring civilians in Gaza, neither did they at any point engage in anything like a systemic, strategic program of killing civilians in Gaza. If you want to know what the casualty figures would look like if that was indeed the case, look at Iran which did do just that with the protests last year where they succeeded in murdering in one week roughly the amount of people Israel killed in Gaza in an entire year of active fighting. The worst you can accuse them of is of not doing enough to minimize civilian casualties. I will argue they did plenty but that's for another time. As for "progroms" in the West Bank, I would love to see what you're talking about. For your reference this is a wikipedia page on progroms[1] For some context, the number of extremist violent settlers that the whole world is fixated on numbers according to estimates in the dozens to hundreds.

Finally, I will leave it up to your imagination what it would look like if the roles were reversed, if the Arabs were dominant in Israel and the Jews were a minority, to help things along, here's examples from the wider Arab world[2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_...


Replies

8note • today at 3:24 AM

those charges are very factually correct. eg. israel has killed >1000 civilian gazans since signing the ceasefire. thats about the same as how iran responded to a similar uprising as oct 7th. by comparison israel has killed at the very lowest, 70k civilians, probably more like 300k -500k if anyone is ever allowed to investigate the rubble from israel's subsequent destruction of civilian homes and infrastructure.

the systematic killing is pretty clear - tell people to evacuate to an israeli defined "safe zone" and then drop bombs on it. other defined policies had the idf mowing down escaped israeli-citizen hostages waving white flags and approaching the gaza border. assigning snipers to get headshots on children.

its a system informed by the fact that going too hard would result in instant sanctions, but the intent is made plenty clear, and the results are easily visible by counting the number of living gazans still in northern gaza.

palestine was under arab and turkish rules for centuries, and jews did much better than arabs are under israeli occupation

if the west was more values-similar with israel, there would be constant swastikas drawn on everything jewish owned or in jewish view, with a couple real true blue nazis going around beating up, killing, and stealing jewish property, and the government would keep pardoning them and insisting its not a problem because its only a couple hundred thousand nazis in a country witb many millions.

i sure saw in that video where cnn gets attacked by the idf clearing the way for settlers that the west bank is covered in stars of david, drawn the same way swatstikas are to terrorize people

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bijowo1676 • today at 4:33 AM

typical jewish propaganda and hasbara.

Arab jews did not want to move to Israel, they were fine living among muslims. Mossad faked terrorist bombings in Baghdad and killed bunch of jews to create an illusion of jew hatred in Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950%E2%80%931951_Baghdad_bomb...

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nautikos2 • today at 3:00 AM

It's not whataboutism if you're comparing apples with apples. Just saying.