logoalt Hacker News

slopnt • today at 12:30 AM • 6 replies • view on HN

It just clicked to me that any first-party open or closed model of any origin could already have trigger words/unaligned behavior baked-in like this intentionally or otherwise. Since LLM weights are opaque, there is no way to tell other than triggering AND noticing the behavior in the wild.

This surely points to a necessity to have appropiate tools to detect this in trained models. Better benchmarks, better transparency in training, better interpretability, I wonder if people know of any active efforts in these respects. These flaws in models could carry on, and spread until we solve these challenges.


Replies

kelnos • today at 12:34 AM

The only true defense is actual open source. Open "weights" is not that. You need the entire training pipeline open-sourced, plus the entire training corpus, so someone can independently train the model from scratch.

Obviously this will never happen. And even if it did, it still probably wouldn't be that hard to hide something in that mountain of data.

➕ show 3 replies
weberer • today at 12:14 PM

>unaligned behavior

The problem is that it is aligned behavior. The aligners in this case are just malicious.

nunez • today at 1:36 PM

Yes; this is a huge risk of using the foundational models. You have no way of knowing other than by stepping on the landmine.

fenomas • today at 4:21 AM

Is there any evidence for this being a thing? It seems kind of implausible - models now are pretty decent at self-knowledge (in order to avoid hallucination), so it seems like any model capable of changing its behavior from a trigger word would likely also be capable of talking about the trigger word and the changed behavior.

Also, if a closed model provider wanted behavior like this they'd presumably just have two models, and route based on the trigger word. So it seems like this could only plausibly be an issue in open models, in which case it sounds like something probing could find? (eventually if not today)

➕ show 2 replies
peder • today at 4:02 AM

They’ll have potential to spread like prion disease

dcrazy • today at 1:01 AM

You’re already sending your prompts and context to their servers. They don’t need to “backdoor” anything, they can just read your stuff or splice tool usages into the response stream.

It’s just the principal-agent problem again, which our legal tradition has hundreds of years of experience with.

➕ show 1 reply