alt Hacker NewsI have always felt that job ads should include salary information. The main reason is not to waste anyone's time. Often a narrow salary range or a clear link between requirements and salary are much more informative than a job description. I have experienced to apply to a job opening and go through one or more interviews only to find out that the company is actually hiring for a more junior position than the ad copy implied.
A second reason is to avoid discrimination. Applicants that feel disadvantaged, even if they are actually qualified, may hesitate to negotiate for a higher salary in the same way that a other applicants would. The consequence is that they start with a lower salary. This applies specially to women. Plenty of research shows that they are less likely to negotiate their salary.
Research[1] suggests that pay transparency leads to lower average salaries because employers avoid paying higher wages to any one employee to avoid costly negotiations with others. The effect is small, around 2%, and it disappears with increasing degree of unionization. In my opinion this is an acceptable price to pay to reduce pay inequality, which often is much more than 2%. It is also a good argument for joining a union.
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I've always asked, and then get the generic "for the ideal candidate we are prepared to go very high", which I tactfully point out as the BS it is - there is no role that has ever been advertised without a manager or director-level sign-off on the range.
I usually reply to the brush-off with "I only ask because the seniority level is reflected in the salary, not the role or the advertisement."
I say that because it is, in fact, true: the seniority/skill required for the role and duties/responsibilities dictates the pay, the bullet points in the advertisement and the role description is often completely divorced from the level of seniority or skill required in the actual role.
IOW "We're hiring a Senior dev" might have me respond "That's a Junior pay-bracket".
At my last 2 jobs (Yelp and Grab), employers gave same level the ~same~ pay, but vastly modified the bonus reward structure so the top 10% (that quarter/half) is rewarded.
This always enabled the company to shift around who is the top 10% (whereas salary is locked in).
If these companies are just measuring salary and not considering RSU grants and bonuses, then you may see an overall reduction on salary, but (potentially) a collective increase on total compensation.
Freakonomics have a good episode including one of the authors of that paper - https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-to-pave-the-road-to-hel...
It's very hard for people to accept that this might even be the case, many people just assume that transparency is better for workers.
Agreed.
My first question to any recruiter is now always "what's the salary range for this role?" precisely because I've run into your first point earlier in my career. I'm not even particularly salary-driven (doing interesting, valuable work is far more important!) but it's the best indicator that the role is pitched at the right level for me.
From an employer's point of view, there's also the avoidance of future unpleasantness if (or, rather, when) it comes to light that some staff are paid significantly less than their peers.
Responsible employers don't need mandatory salary disclosures to do the right thing here but, sadly, not all employers are responsible so this sets a common baseline and ensures everyone plays by the same rules.
After a bitter experience early in my career I _never_ “negotiate” the salary. When that conversation comes up I ask for the range they have for the position. If they are not willing to give that, it’s a huge red flag for me. It means that either the company _doesn’t have a range_, or they’re hellbent on hiring the cheapest person for the job. In both cases I don’t want to work there anyway.
I agree that Jobs should disclose pay upfront before anyone wastes any time. However, quite often pay does not hit the level necessary for me to move from my current role. It is then up to the employer to decide if they want to make the offer better to have me move.
I hold no opinion on whether this is fair is not. Another applicant who is single, low mortgage may end up with more disposable income for less pay and subjectively be "better off" and effectively undercut me and my dependents that I support.
No system is fair. My only personal opinion is that any employee should be able to have representation in employment negotiations. That does not mean just unions, although they work for some, rather they could be a family member or a paid agent.
idk the paper seems very suspect to me.
At the very end you can see what states they’re talking about and it’s basically just New York and California (no other state enacted a law 3 years before 2019).
California’s median income increased 17% from 2016 to 2019 (the 3 years following the law).
New york income increased 17% too.
Federally it increased 5%.
I think using some random spreadsheet as your data source just isn’t a great idea. NBER should be aware the IRS will let people have access to income data for research purposes.
In general, a free market only works (even in theory, let's not even get started on the practice of it...) when _there is no assymetry of information_. Otherwise it's just fraud, one party mispricing things because the other party knows something they don't.
It's why we require public companies to disclose their finances. How could a person, even in theory, know whether to invest otherwise? It's why we require sellers of houses to deliver an independent inspection report. Etc etc.
The converse is also why HFT companies make more money than croesus.
> This applies specially to women.
At least the young women in UK are outearning (and outeducating) young men.
This should not even be a band. It should be exact number and that's it. So that anyone applying knows what they are getting into and whether at that price point it makes sense for them at all.
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>In my opinion this is an acceptable price to pay to reduce pay inequality, which often is much more than 2%. It is also a good argument for joining a union.
A company has a fixed amount of money it can spend on wages. Reducing wage inequality means paying less to the best employees and more to the others, which is great if you just want to slack off but terrible if you're already one of the highest paid employees.
When hiring I don't have a narrow range in mind, it can be 50% or more. I look at the individual and make a judgment call on their impact to the business. For software we don't have a widget factory where employees are easily substitutable.
I've tried the opposite, paid everyone the same. But there were clear differences in ability and more importantly outside options. It became a problem when it came to retention and the business didn't have the ability to overpay everyone to keep the top performers.