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mrguyorama • yesterday at 7:48 PM • 2 replies • view on HN

Which is why we won't be burning ammonia and shouldn't even try.

We already have an entire, scaled up industry of producing artificial fuel in a non-petrochemical route: It's where the ethanol in your gas tank comes from.

Farming will be easier to electrify than shipping, or it might not even need to be, and then we will have ample supply (at least here in the US) of energy dense fuels produced through non-petrochemical needs

Growing corn to turn into ethanol to burn isn't like, a carbon negative process right now, but it's also viable today to provide energy dense fuels in a sustainable way to feed our needs like long term storage, compactness, emergencies, and things like planes which won't work with batteries very well.

We already supply enough artificial hydrocarbon fuel through that process to make up 10% of all gasoline burned. As american cars electrify, the corn farmers are going to lose their shit about this subsidy being reduced, so we should just turn it around and have them commit to a larger artificial fuel industry. Our corn growing is already basically a fully socialized industry, let's just lean into it more. Put less corn syrup into random foods like burger buns and put more of it into vats to get energy dense fuel.

It's (technically, barely) an energy positive process, is extremely scalable, is fairly old "tech" such that it won't be owned by one company or country, and the hardest part will be replacing the petrochemical fertilizer.

Oh, ethanol is a more energy dense fuel too.


Replies

Animats • yesterday at 8:42 PM

> We already have an entire, scaled up industry of producing artificial fuel in a non-petrochemical route: It's where the ethanol in your gas tank comes from.

Ethanol as a fuel is mostly a subsidy for US farmers. The net energy gain is low.[1] Ethanol plants need a lot of heat energy to process corn into ethanol. They don't burn their own ethanol for heat; they use natural gas or even coal.[2] If they made their own process heat, which they could, they'd use about half their own output. They wouldn't get the subsidy on that. So they burn other fuels to make ethanol.

That doesn't include the costs of farming the corn.

[1] https://energy.sustainability-directory.com/learn/how-does-t...

[2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Energy-use-in-each-of-th...

treyd • yesterday at 8:04 PM

The real solution though is nuclear powered shipping. There's dozens of nuclear powered ships already and they've been running safely for decades. It's just regulatory roadblocks, but if governments wanted to do it they could.

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