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pixl97today at 2:21 PM4 repliesview on HN

This is Goodhart's law at scale. Number of released papers/number of citations is a target. Correctness of those papers/citations is much more difficult so is not being used as a measure.

With that said, due to the apparent sizes of the fraud networks I'm not sure this will be easy to address. Having some kind of kill flag for individuals found to have committed fraud will be needed, but with nation state backing and the size of the groups this may quickly turn into a tit for tat where fraud accusations may not end up being an accurate signal.

May you live in interesting times.


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bonoboTPtoday at 8:32 PM

> Number of released papers/number of citations is a target

Only in stupid university leaderships is that truly what gets you hired or promoted. It's simply not true. Junior researchers in fact are believing it stronger than the facts actually support. Yes, you have to have a solid amount of publications, but doing a ridiculous amount of low-impact salami-sliced stuff or getting your name on a ton of papers where you did no real work is not going to win you a job. People who evaluate applications also live in this world and know that these metrics are being gamed. It's a cat and mouse game but the cats are also paying attention. You can only play this against really dumb government bureaucracies that mechanically give points for publications and have hard numerical criteria etc. Good institutions don't do that.

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bwfan123today at 3:29 PM

> This is Goodhart's law at scale.

Also, Brandolini's law. And Adam Smith's law of supply and demand. When the ability to produce overwhelms the ability to review or refute, it cheapens the product.

otherme123today at 4:28 PM

> Number of released papers/number of citations is a target

There was this guy, well connected in the science world, that managed to publish a poor study quite high (PNAS level). It was not fraud, just bad science. There were dozens of papers and letters refuting his claims, highlighting mistakes, and so... Guess what? Attending to metrics (citations, don't matter if they are citing you to say you were wrong and should retract the paper!), the original paper was even more stellar on the eyes of grants and the journal itself.

It was rage bait before Facebook even existed.

armchairhackertoday at 2:40 PM

There’s an accurate way to confirm fraud: look for inconsistencies and replicate experiments.

If the fraudsters “fail to replicate” legitimate experiments, ask them for details/proof, and replicate the experiment yourself while providing more details/proof. Either they’re running a different experiment, their details have inconsistencies, or they have unreasonable omissions.

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