alt Hacker NewsMen who stare at walls
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Is this not a form of meditation? I've never been able to keep a meditation habit, but my understanding is that meditation techniques often feature closing your eyes and focusing on breathing, body parts or some other irrelevant thing, it sounds like staring at a wall would serve the same purpose.
OP mentions they are a coffee drinker, and use caffeine a lot to fight tiredness and brainfog. While the suggested methods to refocus are great, maybe there is some improvement potential by looking at root causes?
As a former heavy coffee consumer, I experienced varying degrees of tiredness over my workday, and inconsistent sleep patterns.
Ever since I stopped drinking it, my energy levels have been far more predictable and decrease rather linearly until bedtime. There is definitely no more "hitting the wall" in the early afternoon! Living caffeine free has generally been a considerable QOL improvement (after initial withdrawal).
When I was a kid, I would often sit on my bed and stare at the wall. My Dad would walk by my room and ask if everything was ok. I would always say "yeah", since I was literally just thinking.
It's a great feeling to just stare at a wall and think.
My first thought is usually, "If I could think about anything right now, what would it be?" And this frees my mind up to think about what I want to think about.
I hope people see this comment.
Meditation is to mental training and focus, as going to the gym is to physical training.
Socials killed our attention span. Agents are literally making us context switch even more.
Putting aside the whole "I am at piece and one with the world" part of meditation, it is extremely hard.
I'm also no expert. When I'm waiting for something to finish (agent, compilation, etc), I've found that staring at a wall ends up in a net positive in productivity rather than replying to a message, going on X, or kicking off another agent.
> Stay up late because I’m wired on caffeine and dopamine from scrolling.
I wish people didn't overuse certain terms. Dopamine has a half life of 2 minutes in the body. It can't possibly keep you up at night.
It's just the caffeine, which in turn has a half-life of several hours. Also below a certain level it's eliminated approximately exponentially, so there's a long tail of residual caffeine.
As a software developer, when I used to smoke, I would go outside for 5-10 minutes and talk shit with other regulars who had nothing to do with my work. It was a break that would fix my fading focus (probably for more than one reason :)
I could only keep peak thinking/designing/developing for about an hour or so. That's peak matrix level with edge cases identified and documented on the way.
I could do OK for a lot longer, but the same quality wasn't there.
The non-smokers would resent us for it, but most of them would go for a half to one hour coffee instead.
I going to try this. Thanks!
The spirit of this is correct, but a better approach to this is going for a walk with just your thoughts.
Yes, that means no phone, no headphones, just you and your brain enjoying a walk. Let your mind wonder and be free.
Shamatha/Zhine practitioner here. The wall staring practice described is not too unlike these. The main difference being that while practicing Zhine, I'm counting breathes.
I really want to point out that the purpose is not to concentrate so hard that focus remains. It's simply to be aware of attention drifting, and gently bring it back. Repeatedly, over time, this becomes easier and easier.
There is a sense of unwrinkling the mind that I achieve after a session. The inner voice drawing me toward the anxieties of life becomes quieter and quieter. The ability to choose to disregard thoughts and move on becomes stronger and stronger.
Staring at a wall, or relaxing, is not meditation or a cure for losing focus.
Losing focus could be e.g., (1) lacking the attention span (ability, fatigue, disinterest), (2) lacking the working memory to hold the problem; (3) distraction (by more important or interesting things); (4) focusing too hard on the wrong things (and getting no where); etc.
Solutions differ, but like talk therapy, most any approach will have some positive effect just via escape from oblivious continuance or self-defeating (mental) behaviors, if not development of insight (i.e., self-observation).
To me the key is that thoughts are motivated (interesting) and amplified (concerning or exciting); the key is to recognize that you are the source of that energy, and learn to notice and decide whether this energy is helpful in the situation. Usually that means letting it go, but sometimes you need to raise it (e.g., to address an instance of ongoing injustice). Then focus is a function of having the energy needed for a given situation - no more or less.
I feel like this is on to something. I remember earlier in my career whenever I hit a really, really hard problem I'd have an instinct to try to stare of into the far distance (especially if there's like a distant skyline) and sort of zone-out. It was like shower-thinking or almost sleeping, and then come back with a deeper understanding of the problem.
Psychology research backs this up -- I think there are studies that show students who have a break between two classes before better in both classes (it's called interference).
Anyways it felt weird to me that our work never accommodated this, I think peak performance requires tuning the environment to the human biology, not management optics.
I use to listen to podcasts to fill in time (while driving, showering, walking) … and also realized it was info overload for my brain, making me feel exhausted & tired.
I’m now so much more relaxed and mentally rested by literally having no music/podcast on while driving/walking/showering these days.
Your brain needs quiet time.
Loosely related, though I don't think Benjamin Bennett's intention was ever to improve focus/productivity
But it never ceases to amaze me the consistency and time spent sitting and smiling and other similar endeavors by Benjamin - https://www.youtube.com/@BenjaminBennetttt/streams
Who ever wrote this has no understanding how eye muscles work.
If you keep looking for hours at a short distance, you should instead take breaks looking at a distance for long term eye health.
That’s why I prefer working next to window or a big open space, not a cubicle where I can stare at a wall.
A lot of these self-improvement sort of hacks stop working when employed at a large scale, repeatedly, so one must keep it in check enough to not overdo it.
However, a lot of my mental performance has become intertwined with the concept of breaking the mental work pattern with some light physical activity like taking a short walk, or just mental inactivity like going outside for a smoke (which also includes a positive chemical reinforcement, coupled with some light environmental stimulation), which might yield itself somewhat similar to the staring at a wall routine, though much less dull.
Why do people constantly have to reinvent the wheel?
This is just Zazen but with less thought put into it...
If you're tired of corpo meditation, go to a Buddhist monastery and learn how to do the real thing. You don't need to pick up the religion, just learn how to reach the kind of deep concentration that leads to joy.
If you're the type of person who can fall asleep quickly, wouldn't a nap be better? I go out to my car and take a 10-15 minute nap when I'm struggling with something at work. I wake up with a clearer head and sometimes a solution to whatever the problem was.
This is extremely true. The instinct to fill every bit of downtime with a quick bit of doom-scrolling is very hard to kick. It's something I have made a point of working on; giving my mind space to just do nothing and let all sort of mental detritus process itself.
I've found the same thing with short walks without headphones. The first few minutes feel almost irritating, like my brain is looking for something to latch onto. Then after a while the mental noise settles and work feels less aversive again...
ugh, this is definitely a great thing to do but it's quite off-putting to see the "improve your focus and productivity" framing. that's uncomfortably target oriented for something that is fundamentally about appreciating and cultivating the mental state in which you enjoy your mind's inner resources and let it wander down serendipitous paths.
I don't stare at walls personally because I find that state easiest to access in a moving vehicle, so my equivalent is sometimes daydreaming rather than reading or scrolling my phone when I'm on a bus or train.
This is pretty much literally what the originator of Zen, Bodhidharma did for 9 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma
I have been doing this for years already after finding out by myself that it worked. Staring at anything works, even staring at your screen as long as you make sure you focus out.
Sounds like this might be activating the default mode network? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network
this sure seems like meditation.
it could probably work as well to close your eyes instead of staring at a wall.
i've always found meditation types revolving around focusing on one thing (candle, wall etc), or nothing (empty mind) to be really hard. my mind just wanders and i end up super anxious, frustrated, and exhausted - resulting in me giving up pretty quickly
What I've found is that focusing on "everything" - ie sitting still and trying to observe your surroundings, your body, all sounds simultaneously seems to work much better. It's easier to get to a calm state this way.
Also, doing this while walking can also work - but perhaps easier to accidentally start thinking about something else
For me it's driving. My best thinking and my best zoning happens on the road, especially if it's limited access highway with low traffic.
I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I got distracted by the large animal with the tusk, over by the kitchen door.
Try zero caffeine for a while. It will not be easy, for the majority of people. After 3 months the worst of it will be over, and most people are withdrawal symptom free by 6 months.
Btw free means no decaf, no chocolate, no tea.
I thought this might have been about zazen, but it's not and no comment seems to mentioned it. I practiced zazen for a while, I want to get back to it. Maybe I will now I've finished studying.
I have wondered if one of the issues with mobile devices might simply be physiological - using them appears to require constant eye movement that rest does not require. I haven't seen this addressed.
Tech Guy reinvents meditation
Is the title a reference to "Men Who Stare at Goats"? If so, I think few people got it.
This was the name of my blog, back when I wrote one. I often do that when I need to think deeply. https://blog.jdconley.com
John Cleese suggested something similar when solving hard problems that require creativity.
I never expected to encounter such an appropriate time to link to this song... https://open.spotify.com/track/2CODrD7ncpPCyGeKqDKpE7?si=uZN...
> Extrapolating that trend, we would be at about 87 GB worth of data today.
Throw in YouTube Shorts / TikTok etc and it makes me wonder if that estimate is drastically too low. We went from the information age, to the brainrot overload age, to let's both have brainrot and let computers think for us.
Even better, stare into the distance to adjust your focus and help them recover from staring at screens. Makes them relax looking at something far away or at least flex them into another state for a little.
I thought it'd be the male version of https://www.thehairpin.com/women-laughing-alone-with-salad/
Bonus focus points if you paint the wall and watch it dry.
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” ― Blaise Pascal, Pensées
Huh, I just realized I’ve been doing a version of this for the last decade or so.
When I’m tired or distracted at work, I do a “magic eye” with my keyboard: I bow my head down close to the keys, then focus my eyes to infinity, and gradually bring my focus closer to “snap” to different focus depths.
When I worked in an office, my coworkers found this disconcerting. Really helps me reset though!
I’ll often use a quick brain break like this to do a tiny bit of exercise, e.g. walk on the spot, plank. This means staring at a wall (or the floor) anyway plus you get the blood flowing. Most appropriate would probably be wall sit while staring at the opposite wall!
I think this is actually valid, if you think about it. Some days I go by with constantly thinking be it about work, in messages, or simply on social media. Taking the time to stare at walls actually provides ability to step back, calm down, and actually random thoughts will start appearing out of which some can be insightful.
It seems you have caffeine problem not scrolling problem :) join us at r/decaf
Goddamn this post reads like my daily challenge / struggle cycle just about every day. I’m gonna go stare at some walls!
Kind of just an unstructured meditation routine no?
And I should really meditate more.
Meditation from first principles.
I could never do this. I would forget that I am staring at a wall within 30 seconds.
The suggestion of going for a walk at least means when you get absorbed by something in your mind, you are still out on a walk, You can't just turn around and start working on some new idea if you are out on a path somewhere.
I've always done this. As I got older I found out that I have really bad astigmatism. It takes a lot of work to keep my eyes in focus. It feels great to just zone out and "stare" at nothing, it's like a bunch of tiny muscles in my skull get to relax.
meditation helps empty hippocampus. its pretty close to what sleep does. 15 mins a day is plenty.
its good to realise its called a practice since u practice it. no one every really things of nothing
Discovering meditation from first principles
I've recently realised that the biggest problem with smartphones is not that they steal your attention (which is bad enough), but that they steal your disattention
I don't know of a better word for it than disattention. Perhaps downtime? But it's not so structured. It's just those moments where you'd previously let your mind wander. Gone forever.