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tbrownawyesterday at 7:26 PM3 repliesview on HN

I don't really see any other interpretation of saying that if someone says you're wrong you should update your worldview. There isn't much that could be other than a call for unquestioning belief.


Replies

roughlyyesterday at 10:08 PM

You saying “this doesn’t happen to me” and someone else saying “it happens to me” is not that person saying you’re wrong. It does not happen to you, that has no bearing on whether it happens to them. Them suggesting it happens to them gives you information you did not have before, namely that a thing happens that you have not personally experienced. That you haven’t personally experienced a thing doesn’t make you wrong, it makes you a human with a particular life story, just like them. We’re all the blind men groping at the elephant.

darth_avocadoyesterday at 9:25 PM

You’re ignoring the context of the comment to make a point. The comment was directed towards a specific type of discourse which was based on personal experiences. This is very different from a discourse where the opposing viewpoints arose from different information or interpretations of the same information, the information being grounded in a standard other than “my personal limited life”. No one is calling for unquestioning belief for ALL conversations, but a few of them don’t need to be cross examined.

If someone shares a story of a terrible interview experience on HN (which happens often) and I claim that bad interviews don’t exist because I’ve never experienced one, do we now expect people to litigate the fact that bad interviews do in fact exist? Or do we just downvote my terrible take and move on?

grayhatteryesterday at 7:50 PM

I say you're wrong, you can either listen, or not. Let's assume you listen. You can then either adopt that new information into your world view, or discard it. Let's assume you adopt it as the truth. You can either update your worldview, or discard your existing worldview and replace it.

Explaining how to update your understanding feels like something that shouldn't need explaining, so I have no idea how well it'll turn out, but I'll give it a shot.

In the case of the original objection, the problem was instead of being willing to believe the other person commenting is being honest, and that they do actually have a manager so detached from reality, and what reasonable and fair behavior would be, that their manager expects them to respond to messages 24/7. Remember, we're assuming this person actually exists in real life. Either you believe this person exists, or you don't, or you actively refuse to believe that this person exists. For the above case, the argument was never you should pretend your boss behaves like that. The recommendation is that you assume the person you're talking to is not lying to you, until you have specific concrete evidence otherwise. If you don't have concrete evidence they are lying, you should believe them, and you should believe that [this person] thinks their boss expects them to be available 24/7.

This is an update to your world view. If you thought no boss could ever behave like this, your world view should now include there are plenty of people who believe their boss behaves like that. You don't have to discard your entire world view to say

shit, some people really do have a bully on a power trip instead of a manager who wants to help them be successful.

hell, you don't even have to believe that, you could just as easily update your worldview to include, wow, there are a lot more people who are afraid to say no than I thought there were. The point isn't to replace whatever idea you had, the point was always, listen to people and try to understand their point of reference, and try to use the things they have learned about life to help yourself, and if you're not incompetent, hopefully help them too. But seriously if you're still so stuck on how you just can not listen to them without completely discarding what you know today, pretend they aren't lying, but they're just engaging in some role play. In this magical make believe world, there is this evil bossman, how can we defeat him?!

If this idea, of picking up new information in the shape of an opinions from another person with eyes and the ability to form coherent sentences and complaints, is really so foreign to you... perhaps you do need to completely discard your current model for understanding, and replace it with a diff model for understanding that can be modified and updated in place without needing to start over.

You don't need to accept their reality as true, to believe them and want to help. Saying "that's not how my boss acts" is an attempt at a refutation, and a denial of their expression. You can doubt that their boss is really that bad, but still be willing to see if you are able to help, instead of rejecting them with, sorry I already believe something different and to even consider if you're describing something that actually happens, I'm going to assert my experience is exactly what it's like for everyone.